DavidSandstrom.com

David Sandstrom 0:00
But supplements don't replace food, right? They're not they're exactly that there are supplements. So, talk to me a little bit about your philosophy on how to use supplements properly.

Adam Payne 0:09
So the body is so amazingly, we're so amazingly made, I think there's two approaches that we should use. And one is work. First of all, if you can find a great naturopath that can help guide your journey. And I think that that's kind of like that step one, either a good integrative physician or a good naturopath because there are literally 1000s of concentrated plant extracts available in the world today and literally 1000s and people and if you just go to Walmart and say, Oh, I'm gonna buy vitamin E, I'm gonna buy vitamin C and do all these things. A lot of times you can make like the you can make the, our, our health worse.

David Sandstrom 0:56
Welcome to the Natural Health Matters podcast where it's all about maximizing your health potential, so that you can look and feel your best at any age. I'm your host, David Sandstrom, naturopathic doctor and biblical health coach, and this is episode number 99.

David Sandstrom 1:09
Today we have in the show, Adam Payne. Adam is a biotech expert and the host of the ultra life today podcast, the show about holistic health, healing herbs in living your ultra healthy life. Adam, welcome to Natural Health Matters.

Adam Payne 1:29
Thanks, David. Thanks for having me.

David Sandstrom 1:32
Well, I know you're, you're an expert in the nutritional supplement industry, and I'd love to have a conversation with you about supplementation and how to use them properly. And you know, what they can do for us and the importance of pursuing quality when you do nutritional supplementation. So why don't you give us a little bit about your, your background first?

Adam Payne 1:54
Well, you know, I came into the nutritional or the natural product space kicking and screaming, I did not I did not want to to natural products. And I think it's because I kind of I grew up in a hippie home David I grew up with, like beanbag chairs and, and Brahms that was my life growing up, you know, incense burning and living plants growing in the basement, you know, don't tell anybody you know, it was it was you know, I had a brill, a classic hippie upbringing, it was really, you know, you couldn't get more hippie than what we had. And so, you know, when I got into my adult years, I kind of rebelled against the hippie lifestyle. And he most people like start off like straight laced, and then they rebel and they go into the natural lifestyle, I went the opposite way and became kind of straight laced, and all that and I found myself in the pharmacy, I was in the pharmaceutical industry, developing drugs that for like heavy duty indications like inflammatory bowel disease, sepsis, psoriatic arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, all these really heavy duty diseases. But you know, God had different ideas for me, I got really sick in 2008. And I partnered with a with a guy I had to, I had to resign my position as CEO of a pharmaceutical company focused on inflammatory bowel disease, because because I got really sick. And when I finally recovered, the other job already been given to somebody else. And I felt I was, I had the opportunity to focus on a lab that was developing natural products. And I really didn't want to do it. But I felt like God, it opened the door for me to work with these people. And we started to just really thrive. You know, there's your naturopath, and so you're familiar with different kinds of extractions, homeopathic drugs, and all the different things. And, you know, back in the 1880s, there was this guy named count Matej. And he developed a whole new school of homeopathy based upon alchemy extractions. So there's, you know, you think about going from, like the 1700s, with Hanuman, and then in the 1800s, and alchemy was still this thing that all of these botanical drugs that were being developed, and he developed this whole school of botanical extracts called Spagyrics, and these are extracts that are based upon, you know, fermenting the botanical product, and then calculating and taking the aromatic components. And so they were purifying all of these different components of the plant, and then recombining it together in order to turn it into a botanical drug. We learned about this because there were these practitioners of this homeopathic School of Medicine, that we're injecting this mixture of these plant extracts these alchemy extracts into the joints of people with rheumatoid arthritis and They were going into remission. And this blew my mind. Because we looked at it, we're like, Ah, it's probably adulterated. It's probably not real. But it was real. It was there was no we did the mass spec work. And we looked at all the fingerprints of all the components that were in this mixture. And there was nothing adulterated in it. And when we we dug further, we found it wasn't just a normal extract it was these alchemy extract. But we couldn't we couldn't deny the science, we were actually seeing people go into remission with rheumatoid arthritis. And why and when we, when we further studied it, we were able to save animals from sepsis using this, this extract. So it was it was doing something really, really profound on the immune system. Later, we, you know, we were able to we developed it into a drug for eczema and psoriasis. And it was bought by Procter and Gamble. And in 2015, the drug is toxic, called bode well, it's being sold online as a treatment for eczema and psoriasis. And it's all natural, and it's just this it's a crazy mixture of these spagyric extracts, but it was it was in the context of that, David, that God started to bring people to me that were working on different things in the botanical space. One researcher out of the University of Oklahoma, was working on curcumin and we all know curcumin I mean, if you're if you're in the natural product space, we all kind of like Tumeric is like the the star child of the natural products environment, right? Because these days yeah, it's like everybody wants to you know, it's like, if you want to deal with inflammation, oh, you got to use turmeric or curcumin using turmeric? Yeah. And I would I would go to these science meetings for rheumatology. You know, the big heavy duty science. CMA talks where all of the rheumatologist who come together or all the gastroenterologist come together at these national meetings. And I would see poster after poster about curcumin. So when this researcher came to me, big Korean out of the University of Oklahoma, and he said, Hey, Adam, I have this, this compound based upon curcumin, I was like, I don't want to work in this stuff. People have already figured it out. It's not interesting. But you know, God spoke to my heart. And he and I was and I felt like I needed to help what he was doing, at least to be supportive. So I sat down with him, and we went through the science. And honestly, David, it wasn't that exciting what he had done. He was just working on a way to solubilize curcumin in order to get it into the body. And, and he had already published about it. So there was no way to get a patent. And I, we tried to get some grants, but it didn't really turn into anything for years. For years. It was really only in like 2013

David Sandstrom 8:03
Let me interrupt you right there just for those that are listening that don't aren't familiar with this discussion. Sure. Merck is considered an anti inflammatory, and primarily because it has curcumin as one of its primary constituents. But Curcumin is very difficult to absorb. So we've all heard the expression you are what you eat, but that's not really accurate. You are what you absorb. And if you can't absorb the curcumin, you're not going to reap the benefit from it. That's why a lot of the curcumin supplements out there have pepper iron or pepper, black pepper in with as part of the ingredients because it helps the body absorb. So I know what you're going to tell us about is a new way to help them make this product more bioavailable.

Adam Payne 8:42
Exactly. And in fact, that was the whole thing that the researcher at the University of Oklahoma had focused on. His whole thing was, you know, the the extracted active ingredients to the tumeric root, the curcuminoids. When they get extracted, they crystallize, they bind to themselves. And there's these are a whole class of compounds called poly phenolic compounds. These are bioactive plant compounds that have phenolic rings in them. And those phenolic rings actually they like to attach to the to each other. And so when you were essentially they becomes a big party they all attach to themselves. And then when you take it into your body, it doesn't dissolve because they don't come out of the crystal it's like swallowing quartz crystals. And expecting some silicone does sort of absorb into the body. It doesn't it doesn't work. But BGS idea was very simply said look, let's just let's start with curcumin already in a liquid matrix. So let's provide to the body already solubilized curcumin and the result was like a 12 ounce bottle of orangey colored water and it you know that was the dosage form and you know what When we drank it, we felt it weak. I remember we sat around the first time we made this stuff, David, and to the, to the horror of the researchers, because they were like, well, we you can't take that internally. We haven't tested it in animals yet. We haven't seen whether it's safe or not. I was like, You know what, this is Tumeric water, it's curcumin. In water. It's this is the safest stuff in the world. There's no toxicity associated with it. So we sat around the table, we took subclasses of this stuff. And we felt it like within five minutes, we got this buzz in our heads. And I knew and what was astonishing to me, was that I knew for at that moment that not only was it getting into my body, but it was getting into my brain because I was feeling it at this cerebral level. Yeah, the buzz. And that that got my attention more than anything else I've ever worked on. When I felt it, I knew that there was something profound going on. And but that was the start, you know, it really developing a 12 ounce bottle of liquid that you could sell on in a health food store really was not a viable nutritional supplement, you're not going to carry 30 bottles home for your monthly supply just doesn't work, you know, does Yeah, it's not it's not a viable product. It really was about three years later, that BG the researcher, he came to me and he said, Look, you know, I'm using this to stain proteins and the scientific study that we use. And we're able to have the curcumin stain protein travel through this matrix in order to differentiate different size proteins. It's called a page gelatin. And most most people don't know what this is. But what I what what this spoke to me was that curcumin would bind to proteins before it would bind to itself. And when we studied this, we found that the coefficient of binding was that the curcumin molecules would preferentially bind to protein structures, before they would bind themselves and aggregate and crystallize and come out of solution. So that gave me the idea back in 2014, why don't we use curcumin or protein as a scaffold. And so we'd attach the curcumin molecules to this protein scaffold. And maybe as the body's digesting the protein, the curcumin would be absorbed and as as soluble, bioactive, bio assimilable, mature material. And, you know, we, we made the stuff that we had some chemistry that's like, little secret sauce in there. But we got the same curcumin buzz when we first time we took it. So we knew brilliant idea. It was it was the foundation of a whole set of patents that we developed at the time. And so the ultracare technology, we call it liquid protein scaffolding. And it's, it's, it's amazing. It works in one one capsule is the equivalent of a whole bottle of of solubilized, curcumin, and people. So

David Sandstrom 13:03
let me summarize what I what I believe I just had to share. So if you the curcumin will crystallize very easily. And you know, it's not easily digestible in that Crystaline form. And you went into a guy who said, Well, we can we can dissolve it in water. And it worked. But it was, you know, you'd have to drink a whole bunch of it so that you know, by month supply, you're filling your trunk up with this stuff. It's not not a viable product in the marketplace. And then you had the idea or I don't know if it's you or somebody on your team, of saying, Well, if it will attach itself to this protein, then when the body absorbs the protein, which it's used to digesting it will absorb the curcumin at the same time. So that's just a brilliant idea. Real quick, I gotta share this because it's called Liquid scaffolding technology, right? Liquid protein scaffold you call it right? Yes, yes, technology. Yeah, I gotta share this real quick. It's kind of a medical thing. But I had a few years ago, I had a ladder fall. And I fell 26 feet, oh my God, and I drove my tibia through my calcaneus I shattered my calcaneus and it was just in a bunch of pieces. So I went into Atlanta and found a really good surgeon and he said, You know what, I know what you're gonna talk about a fusion yoga, I got an A bone fragment to put your foot back together. But here's what I want to do, I want to use a product called Cerament. And instead of using cadaver bone to fill in the gaps, I'm going to use this product and what it does is it acts as a scaffolding for natural bone to grow into. And then when when the bone replaces the scaffolding the body in somatically gets rid of the sacrament and you have new bone, and they use that on my foot. And I'm amazed at the at the the quality of that, that the outcome I got out of that was pretty amazing. So I just wanted to share that because it's kind of similar here to this protein scaffold because the protein is used as a building block and then later on it's Gone.

Adam Payne 15:00
Exactly. Kind of similar idea. It's it's definitely similar idea. And the beauty of what we've developed is that it the body is used to digesting protein structures, right? I mean, we're designed to absorb proteins and break them down. But it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful delivery mechanism. And nobody's done this. And we were astonished. Nobody could tell you, there's all sorts of different pharmaceutical delivery technologies out there. Nobody really came up with the idea of well, let's use protein as the as the delivery mechanism to get these botanical ingredients into the body. So we have a conjugates with with curcumin, quercetin, resveratrol, co q 10. Fysetin. hepatocytes from the devil's claw family, we have we have so many different conjugates or scaffolds that we use. But the biggest one, the one that really is breakthrough for us and that had served so many people is our ultra kicker product, which is the curcumin protein scaffold. And it it works people people get 70% of people have a transformative experience within a week, and half of those people within 24 hours. So I got to tell you a little bit of a story astonishing. Yeah, a little bit of a story about my experience, because I have, I have arthritis in my left hand and I play. I have a 12 string guitar that I play worship music for my church. And, you know, I'm a busy guy. So I don't always take my old trucker. I'm like the worst person to take supplements, right? I have my bottles out, but like I forget all the time. But if I forget to take Ultracur, when I before I start playing, I can maybe play for 20 minutes before my left hand just locks up in pain. It's like, these first two joints just it's so painful. But if I if I take Ultracur, right, when I start playing, or maybe five minutes after I start playing, I can play all night. And so this is this is the kind of experience that people get. And David, if you know, as people know, on our radio show, people can go to any number of the retail locations that are available in their local markets. Or go to our store locator. And you can get a free sample of our product to see for yourself whether this works. We don't, you know, we don't want you to just believe what we have to say. We have We it works so well. We give away samples. I think we're the only curcumin company or the only supplement company that gives away samples because of how well it works and how quickly it works for people.

David Sandstrom 17:42
Yeah, well, we'll hook you up to share that link at the end of the show. And I'll make sure to put a link to that in the in the show notes as well. So tell me a little bit more about the approach that we should take to supplementation. I mean, I supplement daily, it sounds like you do as well. But supplements don't replace food, right? They're you know, they're exactly that there are supplements. So, talk to me a little bit about your philosophy on how to use supplements properly.

Adam Payne 18:10
So the body is so amazingly, we're so amazingly made, I think there's two approaches that we should use. And one is work. First of all, if you can find a great naturopath that can help guide your journey. And I think that that's kind of like that step one, either a good integrative physician or a good naturopath, because there are literally 1000s of concentrated plant extracts available out in the world today and literally 1000s and people and if you just go to Walmart and say, oh, I want to buy vitamin E, I'm gonna buy vitamin C and do all these things. A lot of times you can make, like the you can make the, our, our health worse. You know, you're familiar with the whole Vitamin E story. I mean, everybody was supplementing with Delta tocopherol or alpha tocopherol for so many years. Right. And what was happening was that people were actually they were taking so much Alpha tocopherol thinking I'm going to create this antioxidant gradient in the in their salaries in ourselves, but they were pushing out all of the other tocopherols causing all sorts of other bad health issues. In fact, heart cardiac issues were getting worse for people that were supplementing with like alpha tocopherol. So I think step one is work with a good naturopath, a health coach and integrative physician, because there's so much wisdom that can be applied. Second is you know, there's some I think there's some great genetic testing out there that can help guide the story and I don't know if you're familiar with the different companies that are doing some really great work in this space Geron Novo has a really great approach Switch to genetic and metabolic cellular testing to look at how cell your cells actually process different nutrients. There's a company called three by four, or it's a test three by four, which Jaren Nova puts out, which gives a lot of wisdom based upon our genomics. And which supplements might we need based upon all of the different DNA structures that we have in our body? And there's a

David Sandstrom 20:27
That's pretty exciting work. There's, you know, that's, I think, is really promising. Of course, there's a lot of research to be done in that area. Yeah, it's very promising.

Adam Payne 20:35
Have you? Are you familiar with the company my happygenes.com? No. So we just actually interviewed the founder of this group, my happygenes, it's she has a phenomenal story. It's Dr. J. Dunn. She's a researcher and naturopath chiropractor. But her story really she Delve, she dug down into the genes and how they affect all of the different nutritional pathways in the body. And she, that's a great toolkit to work to work with. And then she only provides the data really through naturopaths, or through physicians that get that get onto her stuff. But I just to consolidate my my thinking, David, I mean, first and foremost, we need wisdom. We need wisdom to understand which nutritional supplements which are these concentrated botanicals, or minerals do we need in order to facilitate the health of our cells in our body? And then once we do that, then it's just it's a question of finding the right botanical ingredient that from the right source that that meets our needs.

David Sandstrom 21:54
Yeah, so I want to go back to what you said earlier is, you know, start start out with somebody who's knowledgeable. And if you go to a naturopath or a functional or integrative medical practitioner, they're not going to get those supplements from a warehouse club, they're gonna go and get professional grade cGMP, certified quality supplements, because you want to know that what's on the label is in the bottle. Right? And, you know, there's, there's a lot of manufacturers out there, and you could probably speak to this more than I can, but either out of ignorance, or perhaps, you know, more malice involved, that are not really, they don't have the quality control standards in place to actually consistently deliver what they claim is inside the bottle. Would you agree with that,

Adam Payne 22:40
Oh, my gosh, I just went to the University of Mississippi has a botanical drug conference every year in March. And I met a guy there a guy named Ed Fletcher who's actually a, his, his whole business is sourcing botanical ingredients for the, for the natural products industry. And I was at a presentation and you know, for Echinacea, right, which is one of the most popular health immune botanical ingredients out there. Did you know and this, this blew my mind that the the actual supply of Echinacea is only 25% of the of what is on demand in the marketplace of demand. So that means it's more than 75% of what is sold as Echinacea out in the marketplace isn't Echinacea it's an adultery we call it an adulterated product. So it's so important to find reliable sources of of these ingredients and it's very rarely obvious who is selling the quality product and who is it's hard to?

David Sandstrom 23:55
It's hard to know they don't reminds me of the of the time was few years back Taco Bell was fine. By the I think it was the Food and Drug Administration or the USDA maybe but anyway, they they were calling their tacos a beef taco but some of them the government inspection said there's not enough meat there's not enough beef in here to call this beef. Oh my gosh, you violated our guidelines. This was a beef like product but it's not beef. And they got fined you know so fillers and all sorts of who knows what some beef like product that looks looks a little bit like beef has same texture but it's you there's not enough beef in there to call this beef. And you know as who knows what it was I don't know if it was done by ignorance or what what it was, but that was a big headline for a while. And I think the same is true in the natural supplement business if you're not buying from a quality manufacturer who who sources their product ethically and has quality control standards in place. You very well might be You know, at best wasting your money, but at worst, harming yourself with something inside that bottle that you don't want to take?

Adam Payne 25:07
Absolutely. And it's unfortunately very, very difficult for the consumer to know what is a, what is a real product and what is a fake product. You can go into a health food store or even a lot of, you know, compounding pharmacies, and you'll have four different choices of one particular ingredient in front of you. And, you know, you can go by price and say, Okay, well, the most expensive one is probably the quality ingredient or the right one. But then you can go to like a brand. And you do trust the brand or not. It's It's so hard. And unfortunately, David, I don't there's no easy answer. For finding the right products or the right quality supplier, we do an enormous amount of testing, I mean, everything that comes into our facility, we test for identity and then potency. And then when we're in the process of making it, we test to make sure that it's that the capsule is what it says it is before it goes into the bottle. And we have like an enormous amount of checks and balances that go through our system. But very few supplement companies actually go through the same kinds of rigorous testing. One way to actually kind of be assured is to look and see whether a company has a third party, GMP certification, if they do have a third party certification, like through USP or through Eurofins, or through NSF, then that can point you in the direction that may be that the probably that company is doing the right kind of testing to make sure that what they what they're saying is in the bottle is actually in the bottle.

David Sandstrom 26:46
Yeah, so for those that don't know, cGMP stands for a certified good manufacturing practices. And there are antecedent entities that will certify those products, third party so that you know if it has that stamp of approval, that goes a long way towards assuring the consumer that there's something good inside the bottle,

Adam Payne 27:05
and when I wouldn't, you know, and then there's the second question, which is does the ingredient actually absorbed into the body? Right? And that's where you have to answer the question for like Curcumin for poly phenolic compounds or curcumin and quercetin. Most people don't get an experience with curcumin products that are available in the marketplace. You know, the big the big dog on the street is. And I won't mention names, but everybody knows them. They have a whole bunch of different products. And they're actually some of the most expensive products in the marketplace. One of my dear friend was interviewing the owner of that company, and he was like saying, Well, hey, I've got pain in my body and inflammation, I've been taking your product, and I really don't feel a difference. And he was like saying, Well, if you really have some inflammation going on, take 16 of the capsules, and you're gonna feel a difference. And he did, he took 16 of these things, and he's like, Oh, I Aoi pain is gone in my body. But that's, you know, that's not a solution that that means that his product really doesn't absorb well into the body, you really need to sometimes you need to find something that provides the right technology that allows those ingredients to be absorbed and assimilated into our cells. And then there's, you know, there's the whole thing of methylation. People that don't methylate Well, or we call it metal plates escaping me HR people that don't methylate and I'm actually one of those people I don't I don't methylate my I don't I'm a poor methylate er my weak methylator And in those cases, I need B vitamins that are pre methylated so I need methyl Kabbalah mean I need methyl folate, because my body won't absorb folate or methlcobalamin, which is you know the B vitamin and turn it into its active methylated form. So that would be like the the fourth kind of level that you need to look at. But that's also we can get wisdom on whether we need methylated vitamins or not based upon our genome and kind of, you know, how our, how our DNA is, is set up in our bodies.

David Sandstrom 29:35
Right, right. The genetic genetic testing today is has come a long way. And there's companies like 23andme that will will test your personal genome as to whether or not you have snips there, it's SNP stands for a single nucleotide polymorphism. But anyway, it's basically a defect in that particular gene, and they can tell if you're a weak methylator Not with that test. It's pretty interesting. It's very, very promising field. I mean, I think it's still in its infancy. But it's it's pretty interesting stuff.

Adam Payne 30:08
So David, how did you get involved in the, in the natural product space? What What kind of led you into natural empathy?

David Sandstrom 30:16
Well, you know, I always had an interest in health, but up until around the year 2000 My interest was very medically based, kind of a little bit like your background. And, you know, I was reading, you know, medical type of publications, and, you know, had my faith in the medical field, listen, you know, take doctor's orders, and, you know, listen to what they have to say, until I had a gym injury. And I had this elbow inflammation, actually, it was kind of like a tennis elbow kind of thing. And the doctors just gave me a bunch of anti inflammatories. And that didn't, didn't touch, it didn't do anything for me. And they said, well, we don't really have anything else for you. That's, that's the end of our tricks in our bag here. So I'm not I can't live with this for the rest of my life. So I found a guy online and the Internet was not, you know, this as broad as it is today. But I found a guy who who did, he was a chiropractor. And he did a technique called active release technique, where it's like a kind of like a deep tissue massage. It's a whole episode in itself, no time to go into it. But I went to him and I got relief. And I was like, wow, this is pretty cool. But, you know, I was still you know, thanks a lot, appreciate the help, and, you know, gonna live my life. And then my second health crisis was chronic sinusitis. And, again, I my first approach was go to the doctor, and they gave me antibiotics. And they gave me a strong, prednisone, you know, tried to try to treat this with medicine with pills a pill for every ill approach kind of thing. And again, I there was no relief. So the doctor says, Get a CAT scan. So I got it. He sticks my film up on his screen, and he says, you know, your sinuses don't look too bad, but I would recommend you get sinus surgery is probably the next step. Okay, because the drugs aren't working

Adam Payne 32:08
into your sinuses and drain them out.

David Sandstrom 32:10
Yeah, they do a roto rooter. Literally, it's like a roto rooter. And, and again, the Internet was not what it is today. But I get online with my dial up connection. And I'd started doing a little research. And I found that it's very dangerous surgery, a lot of blood, and it's very close to the optic nerve. Some people go blind. I say, Man, I don't feel like going that route. That's, that sounds dangerous. So I wonder if that guy, that natural guy that helped me with my elbow would have any advice for me. So I went to him. He's like, they don't even think you have sinus problems. I think you have food sensitivities. Well, whatever, just get you off a couple of the troublesome foods. Let's cut out dairy and wheat and see what happens. And of course, we got to rebuild your gut because of all those antibiotics you took. You wiped out all your beneficial bacteria, sketchy on, you know, a yeast, yeast cleanse, and we'll start building up your gut flora in your gut, and change your diet a bit and see what happens. Right. Well, you know, I was I was an airline pilot flew flew for major airline for 31 years. Oh, wow. And pilots are good at following directions. So I did everything that God told me to do. And 30 days later, I was a new person. I could breathe again. My sinus issues were over my energy came back I was my mental clarity improved. From that point on, I was sold. I was a natural health guy.

Adam Payne 33:29
Oh my gosh. And it's a real watershed experience.

David Sandstrom 33:33
Yeah, yeah, it really is. And then then I got you know, when when the airline industry looked like it was going to crumble. I went out and got my Certified Nutritional counselor and naturopathic doctor and became a certified biblical health coach in an open to practice.

Adam Payne 33:48
So tell me about the the certified biblical practitioner because that's that's that's a little bit of an unusual step. Beyond being a natural there was

David Sandstrom 33:58
a it was a program through Garden of Life and Garden of Life was supplement company based down in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, which was near where I lived. And it was guy named Jordan Rubin that owned it at the time. And I was involved in his his company called Beyond Organic. Interesting, it was it was a food quality food delivery to your door. Kind of a concept a little early on little before its time there's a lot of people doing it these days. But anyway, he had a program for for people that are doing it started at Garden of Life, but then it he he extended it to be organic, to get certified as a biblical health coach, and it was an online training program. You know, I forget how many modules but it took a took a few weeks to go through was pretty involved. And you know, that was my certification as a biblical health coach and abroad in another passion area of mine as a follower of Jesus Christ. And when I was studying naturopathy, I saw so many parallels between what the Bible what the Bible teaches about how we're supposed to live our lives. And the naturopathic approach to health. For instance, you know, the first naturopathic tenant is, first do no harm. Sure. And I said, Well, the Bible teaches bodies of temple of the Holy Spirit, therefore holy and sacred, we should take care of it. We're stewards. A lot of unity there. You know, another one is a treat the root cause, you know, and I said, Well, the Bible teaches that as well. You know, Jesus said, You know, if you've heard it said, do not commit adultery. But I tell you, if a man looks at a woman with lust in his heart, he's already committed adultery with her. And he's fine.

Adam Payne 35:34
Yeah. So you have to look at the root of what was threw out of which the action is coming out of. Right, exactly.

David Sandstrom 35:41
The adultery is a symptom of the root problem, which is lust.

Adam Payne 35:46
Yeah, makes sense.

David Sandstrom 35:47
So, you know, I saw these parallels, and I said, Wow, this is, this is really something I can I can read that resonates with me, and I can get it I can get on board with this. And you know, long story short, Harry, I'm doing the natural health matters podcast, and I wrote a book called The Christians guide to Holistic Health. Wow. And, you know, it's my contention that we maximize our health potential. When we align our lives more fully with God's natural design for spirit, mind and body. We probably don't have time to go into that in today's episode, but maybe we'll we'll do that another time. And

Adam Payne 36:19
yeah, that'd be great. I mean, I, I'm a total believer that God, that the very, the wisdom that God wants to give us is to help us to live our lives, free from pain free from suffering. And not the not to, not to be in bondage to unhealthy lifestyles or unhealthy thought patterns or unhealthy ways that we say that we feed our bodies, right. So I mean, just think about it, right? Like we're at the temple. So do you want to are we going to build our temple with McDonald's hamburgers? And french fries? And Coca Cola? Right? I mean, think about I mean, that'd be like saying, Well, I'm gonna build my house with with balsa wood. And, and, you know, and some cheap particle board, right? And so, yeah, it'll go up quick. That'll be there. But it's not going to be it's not a strong structure. It's not something that you'd want to live in. It's definitely not something you'd want to try to weather any kind of storm or difficulty in. Right? So I think God wants us to you know, that's either I Love You know, I hadn't I really, you know, I'm a believer in Christ. I had a I grew up in a Jewish home a Jewish hippie home, right to go back to the original.

David Sandstrom 37:47
right? So you're, you're a completed Jew,

Adam Payne 37:49
I'm a complete a Jew. Yeah, I, my wife is two I met. When I was 20 years old, I had a full on Vision of Christ. And it was, it's it. It started because my best friend had died when I was 18 years old. And I had some very raw questions to whoever created existence as to why the creator of existence would allowed death, because the death of my friend seems so unright it was the worst day it was no justice. Why would you? Why would the creator of existence allow us to experience somebody that we loved and cared for to be ripped out of our experience? And that just that, that that experience of death caused me to have the tenacity and the honesty in my spiritual walk, to be able to approach God and say, Why did you allow death? And you know, God answered me, David, he showed me Jesus. Eventually, he showed me Jesus said, Yeah, you know what death sucks. The curse of death is awful. That's why I've come to bring eternal life, through the power of the resurrection that came through my Messiah. And, and so as a completed Jew, that experience just brought to me so much joy, and hope and gratitude, that now I don't have to live in the curse of death. I can now have eternal life.

David Sandstrom 39:26
And so you know, I want to say I'm sorry to hear that you lost a good friend. You know, that's, that's a tough thing to go through. But praise God that he used that pain to bring you to the realization of the truth that Jesus is the Messiah. That's, that's really awesome. But yeah, my wife is a Messianic Jew. And she doesn't even really like the term Christian. She says, I you know, I'm just a follower of Jesus and I'm a completed Messianic Jew. And it's beautiful the way she sees herself. But you know, I, one of the things I love When I was researching and writing my book and studying the Bible for what it says about health is, is your God, He loves us more than we know. He loves us more than we can fathom. And he knows everything. He knows the future, he created it all. And he knows the outcome Our choices are gotta have before we make those choices. So when he tells us to do something

Adam Payne 40:22
That's pretty deep, I mean, when you think about that, that's pretty amazing, right?

David Sandstrom 40:26
Yeah, it is, you know, you got to, I think all people should wrestle with this a little bit, you know, and say, Well, if that's true, then why wouldn't I want to surrender to that? Why wouldn't I want to surrender to God's love and goodness, in what we do, we see some good things happen. Because when God tells us to do something, it's for our benefit. And if he tells us to avoid something, it's for our protection, we got to hang on to that. That's always there's never a time when those things don't apply. And we if we can, like you say, if we can just ponder that for a minute, and say, wow, it's it's crazy not to surrender to that kind of love and that kind of goodness. And you know what we do? The Bible says, There's fruit from that love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self control, who would argue that all of that is not health promoting?

Adam Payne 41:18
Who doesn't want peace and joy hanging out in their lives? Right? But what the like Proverbs says, it's for lack of wisdom that people perish, right? And so yes, what we need is that wisdom for our own health. And I think that's David, were people like you as a naturopath as a licensed medical provider, you can provide that wisdom to people, so that they can overcome different defects that they might have in their own cellular biology or in their own genome. Yeah, and help them out.

David Sandstrom 41:53
Well, let me just be clear, I'm not licensed to live in the state of Georgia, and they don't license natruropaths. So I'm not licensed naturopath. But But I do have that type of training and philosophy in my background. And, you know, it's just the the slogan that I shared a moment ago, we maximize our health potential when we align our lives with God's design, his natural design for spirit, mind and body. There's a lot in that statement. But my contention is this is that the reason the ultimate source of all sickness and disease is sin. It's because we live in a fallen state here on Earth, and people are going to get sick, and people are going to die early. Right, that's going to hurt, we can't stop that from happening. But I suggest that we should do everything we can to spare us suffering that God would prefer that we not go through. Exactly, you know, that that's just this where I'm at. And I you know, there's there's a lot there, it takes a lot to communicate that message, my book is 325 pages, very easily could have been two or three times that, you know, had to whittle it down, and get it into a size of a book that people are actually going to get through and read because nobody's going to read a 900 page book.

Adam Payne 43:11
I'll post a link to your book on our web page or on our Facebook feed so people can can get get a hold of your book. And David, we also appreciate that we'll send a link so that people want to get a free sample of any of our Ultracur products to see whether they would help them with any kind of pain or inflammation that's going on in the body.

David Sandstrom 43:35
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I'll make sure to put the link to that. That promotion on the in the show notes page for this episode. This is going to be episode 99 will be davidsandstrom.com/ 99. And you'll be able to see the links there.

Adam Payne 43:52
Well, David, thanks for joining our podcasts. And I appreciate you inviting us to yours. It's been a real pleasure visiting with you. And I hope we can do this again.

David Sandstrom 44:02
Yeah, I think this could be a start of something really productive and enjoyable. So what if people want to get a hold of you, Adam, what's your best contact information?

Adam Payne 44:10
Well, they can go to altratoday.com. Let's altratoday.com. And we have ways people can reach out to us through our website. We have a store locator they on on ultr today.com. And if they want to get a free sample, we have a promotion. You just pay for shipping. You can also get free samples anywhere in the United States or at any of the of the retail locations where ultracare products are carried.

David Sandstrom 44:39
Excellent. Adam, it this is fun. I enjoy talking with you.

Adam Payne 44:43
Yeah, likewise, I look forward to doing it again. Thanks for having us.

David Sandstrom 44:47
For more, go to the show notes page at davidsandstrom.com/99. There you can find an audio as well as a video version of the podcast. I always include downloadable transcript and some type of a content upgrade there. help you go deeper with that subject. You know, if you were enjoying the podcast, I should appreciate you telling a friend about it. Tne number one way someone finds out about a new podcast is a friend tells them. So if you're enjoying the podcast, it's a pretty good chance, you know, somebody that would enjoy it as well. Would you share it with them? Tell them about the link davidsandstrom.com where they can go to anywhere where they listen to podcast. And if they don't know how to do that on their phone, maybe you can just ask them to hand you their phone and do it for him. And go ahead and follow the show. I would appreciate that very much. That's it for now. Thanks for listening. I'll talk with you next week. Be blessed.