If you're thinking about strengthening your immune system heading into this year's cold and flu season, don't forget to take care of your nasal biome. Natural product expert Joyce Dales talks about her products Coldbeegone and Allergybeegone.
Topics Discussed...w / Time Stamps
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Everybody thinks that it's so easy to get sick. If someone sneezes near you, it's really not. If your terrain in your nose is in perfect condition, then the odds of you getting sick are cut tremendously. And only 1% of the time do we really catch anything through the air 99% of the time we give ourselves pathogens by touching our eyes, ears, nose or mouth. And people don't realize this. This is the missing story that yeah, you should wash your hands. But there's more to it that could really empower people. The reason we wash our hands is because if you just casually scratch your ear after touching that doorknob that 4,000 Other people have touched, that actually travels to the nose. And the nose is where everything colonizes. And it latches on. And I don't think people fully understand that.
David Sandstrom 0:48
Welcome to the Natural Health Matters podcast where it's all about maximizing your health potential, so that you can look and feel your best at any age. I'm your host, David Sandstrom, Naturopathic Doctor and Biblicla Health Coach, and this is episode number 98. Today we have in the show, Joyce Dales. Joyce is the president of Buzzeragogo, and the inventor of Coldbeegone a homeopathic manuka honey based remedy that you swabbing your nose to fight a Cold Flu or allergies, and to protect the nasal biome. Joyce, Welcome to Natural Health Matters.
Joyce Dales 1:22
Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.
David Sandstrom 1:25
Yeah, it's a pleasure to speak with you. And you know, I think this day and age, especially as we're heading into cold and flu season, people want to know how they can build resistance against a virus or a potential illness. And I really love what you're what you're doing with your your Coldbeegone products and the Allergebegone, because it speaks to the idea of strengthening our internal terrain, as opposed to just waiting until you get sick and popping some pills. So can you speak to that concept a little bit and we'll actually even before we go there, can you just give us a little background as to who you are what you do?
Joyce Dales 2:01
Well, I'm a mom, first and foremost, that's my primary identifier. And I invented my product because I'm an adoptive mom and I adopted two little girls from China in Vietnam and one of my daughters was immunocompromised. She needed emergency open heart surgery during her adoption due to Agent Orange. And that was the first time or the second time someone in my life was immunocompromised. And that was the moment I decided I don't want to be afraid of every cough and sniffle I didn't 15 years ago, I felt the way that we have all felt in the last two years, that every sneeze is a threat to my family's well being and I just couldn't exist, I can't exist in that space that's not sustainable. So being a New Englander and being raised by a grandmother who believed that all natural things have the solution to our problems, I decided to tackle it from that point of view.
David Sandstrom 2:55
Nice, that's really good. Well, you know, to live in that fear based mentality is not healthy, right? Because we have a mind body connection going on. And if you if you're living in fear, it's going to stimulate your sympathetic side of nervous system your rev me up, you know, fight or flight side. And when you're stressed out all the time, it compromises your immune, it does the opposite of what we're hoping to do. So yeah, so being a little more proactive and strengthening our systems to handle what what comes our way is a really good idea these days, and I'm totally on board with what you're doing. So tell us a little bit more about your your products.
Joyce Dales 3:34
So my products are coldbeegone, which is BiII like a bumblebee and allergy be gone. And I have a product for adults and kids, although they're all safer over the age of one. And basically, it's just a minute a homeopathic infused raw super honey blend, and you swab it in your nose to help deal with active symptoms. If you're actively sick. If you're fighting, sniffle if you start to feel like you're coming down with something, or you're totally fighting a full blown cold, or to use it to build up your natural terrain, because by the time we hit midlife, we've destroyed our biome. And people always think of the gut as the seat of your biome. And it is it's their it's the seat of your your immune system, so to speak. But no one ever thinks of the nose as the first line of defense for the immune system as the gatekeeper. And everybody thinks that it's so easy to get sick. If someone sneezes near you. It's really not. If your terrain in your nose is in perfect condition, then the odds of you getting sick are cut tremendously. And only 1% of the time do we really catch anything through the air 99% of the time we give ourselves pathogens by touching our eyes, ears, nose or mouth. And people don't realize this. This is the missing story that yeah, you should wash your hands but there's more to it that could really empower people. The reason we wash our hands is because if you just casually scratch your ear after touching that doorknob that 4,000 Other people have to etched, that actually travels to the nose. And the nose is where everything colonizes. And it latches on. And I don't think people fully understand that.
David Sandstrom 5:09
Yeah. Well, you know, if you think back to high school biology, if you wanted to culture something, you put it in a warm, dark, moist environment. And that's where bacteria will grow. It's also a favorable environment for viruses. So yeah, this makes total sense. And really, almost nobody's talking about the nasal biome. And it is our first line of defense. And the reason why we have hairs in our nose is to filter out the junk we're breathing in. But as you said, airborne stuff is not the real threat. It's it's stuff we come in contact with, with our hands, isn't it? Yeah, because
Joyce Dales 5:43
if you touch your eye, that mucosal system down through the sinuses travels to the upper adenoids zone, the back of the nose. And that's where we have these receptor cells. And it has to go there, because that's where it needs to do its dirty work. So it goes to those receptor cells. And it latches on like a counterfeit key, and it sits there dormant for up to two weeks. And in my research, I was amazed by this, I'm like, depending on the variety of pathogen, you have, like a two week phase of dormancy. And at that time, when I was doing my research, I was consulting with a lot of physicians and people and experts in the field. And I was told, yeah, you know, 25% of all medical personnel are colonized with Mersa, or vre, and their noses in the nasal pharynx. And we deal with that by giving them ampules of alcohol that they can burst in their nose. However, when we do that, sometimes we don't get all of the pathogen and therefore create and more antibiotic resistant bacteria because some survived and adapted. And the second component is, we inadvertently carpet bomb the area and destroy all your beneficial bacteria. And when that happens, and you don't have your beneficial bacteria anymore to help your nose trap and prevent you become more susceptible to illness. So if that was mind blowing to me, I'm like, This can't be well how come people aren't taught this, that if you use excessive saline chemicals, things with sodium benzoate you're destroying your beneficial bacteria and utterly compromising your noses ability to trap and prevent?
David Sandstrom 7:07
Absolutely so. So would you say that the things like the neti pot where you do the nasal irrigation with saline is good or bad?
Joyce Dales 7:17
I personally am a neti pot dropout, because it feels like I'm waterboarding myself. So I am not a strong person. I have to admit, it reminds me when you're 10 years old and your friend
David Sandstrom 7:30
if someone doesn't know we're talking about with a neti pot is basically looks like a teapot. And you you put it up your nose and you pour water in one side, and it runs through your sinuses and out the other so it is it's nasal irrigation, then the idea is to flush out the junk. But what you're saying is you may inadvertently flush out some of the beneficial some of the good guys living in there that help your biome stay healthy. Is that correct?
Joyce Dales 7:55
That's right. And I think that neti pots have their place when you are dealing with prolonged congestion and you need a good clean out. Or if you are if your job entails, you know you're having a lot of pollutants, but it can become excessively sterilizing, it can stun your cilia and it can inadvertently send bacteria higher up into those sinuses, especially if your child and it's such a short journey, I'm inadvertently creating a bacterial sinus infection. So you gotta be you gotta be a really well versed neti pot user, somebody who's talented at it and fully understands the process.
David Sandstrom 8:31
Alright, so it requires training. It's not it's not just something you can pick up the drugs.
Joyce Dales 8:35
Do your research because neti pot is not something to just casually do like there are people who give themselves terrible infections with using tap water and there's a science to it.
David Sandstrom 8:46
Yeah, yeah. Tap water loaded with chlorine kills bacteria. Yeah, among other things, fluoride, a lot of stuff in tap water. That's that's really a discussion for another day. But yet today we're talking about strengthened our internal terrain. So getting back to my original question, you know, there is a there's a debate going on, between germ theory, and what Antoine Bichone would would advocate is strengthening the internal train. So in other words, it's not so much the germs that we should be concerned about. It's Are we a favorable environment for those germs and those bacteria viruses to proliferate? Because we want our bodies to be a hostile environment for them. We want when they show up our bodies go to work and destroy them in a relatively short period of time and they don't become bothersome. But when we are compromised, would they have an opportunity to take hold, you know, for instance, with the Coronavirus you know, one person gets it and they have mild symptoms little scratchy throat little runny nose a few days and they're over it. It's like a light cold and another person ends up in pneumonia and hospitalized and on a ventilator and maybe even die. From it, they both got the same virus. But one person, you know, it was fatal. And the other person who was mild The difference is the terrain, that the person who was immunocompromised is the one that's going to have a problem. So I would suggest that most of what we've heard from our government and our health agencies these days, is misguided, you know, you know, wear a mask, wash your hands, you know, stay home, stay safe, isolate yourself, shut down the schools, that's doing nothing to and to cooperate with our body's natural design. And it's my contention that we maximize our health potential when we align our lives more fully, with God's natural design for spirit, mind, and body. And this is an area of the of taking care of the body, that holy temple that we live in, in a way that really can enhance your ability to resist whatever infection comes our way. So anyway, I know I got a little bit of a rant there, but I love it. Do you have any? Do you have anything to add to that Joyce?
Joyce Dales 11:09
I do. I think it's really interesting. I have so many thoughts about that. I think that the terrain theory is brilliant. And the way that we get like you said, some people get severely ill and some people don't That, to me is proof that the terrain theory is spot on. It's that's the evidence. That's the proof of it. I like to think for a long time I've been thinking about this and sometimes called begotten my products will work on me. And sometimes it's not as effective. It depends on my status on any given day. The other component is that when I use it, how far has colonized colonization gotten. And that dormancy phase, when do I strike in the process of dormancy or colonization, that can also impact whether or not the pathogens just hit you here or get down to your lungs. So there's all these different moments in time when we can impact the process, and maybe have a better outcome. And the other thing that what you said, popped into my head, I have this theory that we were not designed to be in an environment. We're supposed to go to market square day and have like 200 400 people in our, in our biome, so to speak in our weekly biome. And we excessively challenge that we have gone outside of the parameters of what is natural to us by going to an airport and touching a doorknob that 10,000 Other people have touched in that week, and it has not been clean. So since we have to live in this global environment, and we are going outside of how we were designed, and what our biome can handle, we have to do everything we can to get back to homeostasis. And to protect ourselves, you need to have a myriad of things in your arsenal to protect yourself, because our terrain has already been bombarded by pollutants and assaults, and Nevermind the unnatural globalization of the exposure to pathogens, all of those things, I think plan to that's what when you spoke, that's exactly where my head went.
David Sandstrom 13:11
Yeah, well, I couldn't agree more for somebody that spent 35 years in airliners in and around airports, I can relate to what you're saying, you know, I used to get sick pretty frequently, I'm retired now. But you know, I would get exposed to a lot running through airports every time I went to work spent 35 years as an airline pilot. And but you know, when I started implementing these natural and holistic principles and strengthening my internal terrain, my my frequency of cold or flu, dropped off the cliff. I mean, I hardly get sick anyway, I wouldn't say never get sick, but I you know, when I do, it's mild. And in, I did it by implementing these types of principles. You know, I was listening to a podcast the other day, and I thought this was a great way of looking at it. If you take an animal in the wild and you put them in a zoo, they're not in their natural environment anymore, and they become less healthy. They may not even be able to procreate you know, they're just not as healthy as they are their natural environment. Well, we are designed to make contact with the earth the outdoors, get outdoor air, fresh air, sunlight on our skin, be in sync with diurnal rhythms of the of the planet, all those things, you know, work in the garden outside, you know, walk it on a daily basis. We're designed to do all that, but we're essentially living in human zoos, the way we live in office buildings and even in our homes, you know, with with our windows shut, and artificial heating and air conditioning and, and all kinds of pollutants accumulating in our homes from carpet and paint, and you name it. So we're essentially you know, we're living in a zoo and we've got to do our best to minimize that and farming get back to the way things are supposed to be and that way will strengthen We will will strengthen our internal terrain. So I just love your message. It's a great message.
Joyce Dales 15:06
Thank you. And you know, there's another component to that as well that you just made me think of it I find it really troubling as a teacher and as a young mom, when everybody's like, Oh, my kids sick all the time they're sick every two weeks, it builds their immune system. No, that's a big fat lie that your child has to have a cold every month of its life. Your child builds the immune system by micro exposure, and then it has healthy terrain dealing with it. If he's constantly fighting a virus off, how do they build terrain, and constantly fighting a virus off to a lot of parents equals trips to the doctor more exposure, antibiotics, my children when we're the lake, I will be like, don't shower for three days, get it all good. Just lick the rocks, go for it, guys. But when we travel are where you know, when we're in Florida, and we're exposed on swim team, and there's so much more exposure, then I I'm careful about human germs, not natural germs. So I think that it's a mistake for people to think you can ever get ahead of the evolution of human viruses, you can't catch all of them, you will never have that perfect immune system, all you can do is mitigate you are healthier by being healthy. Not the other way around. You can't build health by constantly battling exposure. That's exhausting. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, I really rail against that message.
David Sandstrom 16:31
Our systems should be able to fight off these viruses or bacteria on a micro basis, and we don't even know it is just goes on behind the scenes. We don't have symptoms, our bodies are just working the way they're supposed to work, they fight that stuff off. You know, you we can't, as you said, there was a great thing you just said was, you can't possibly protect yourself from every germ. You know, I'm not against hand washing, you know, prudent hand washing is a good idea. But the thinking that washing your hands 12 times a day is going to protect you from illness is kind of foolish, it really is because we get exposed to millions, or maybe even billions of bacteria and viruses on a daily basis. Parasites, our bodies are constantly fighting them off behind the scenes. And that's where we can our bodies can learn that go from the innate immunity to the learned immunity and say, Hey, I recognize that virus. I've seen it before. No problem got this covered. And it goes on behind the scenes and you don't even know what's going on. That's that's a wonderful thing. Our bodies don't need
Joyce Dales 17:37
to have a sterile home. Our rule is that if it came from the outside world, it is cleaned. It doesn't come into my home. But my home is not pristine. We drop keys at the door we wash hands, we spray phones with ever clear non hormone disrupting Everclear 151 spritz bedspreads. Wash hands, and then you can I don't care how I mean, obviously I clean it's not a dust bowl in here, but I don't excessively clean my home. Clorox does not touch this property. I want my biome, you know, they're selling you know what they're selling now, and honestly, it's kind of genius. So I'm not knocking this entrepreneur, but they're selling these systems now that gently missed your environment with probiotics. Shouldn't have to do that. Oh, boy. Yeah, take your shoes off at the door. Yeah, if you've been in school all day, Go change your clothes or take a quick shower. Sure, but I let my home biome be my my nest of of natural, what is natural to my family and the germs that we share. And that's, that's natural. That's our environment.
David Sandstrom 18:45
Very good. So I want to ask you a couple of questions about your product. So it's a manuka honey, and in homeopathics, infused with Homeopathics. So just as a brief little background, let me give the natural nation a little background here. Homeopathic remedies are FDA approved, and they're considered pharmaceuticals. But they are at such low dose. And actually they are energetic remedies. So that they are non toxic, you can give them to you to babies. It's not a key you cannot overdose on a homeopathic but they are very effective if you use it properly. So tell me a little bit about the formulation of your product and just how it works, how effective it is and those types of things.
Joyce Dales 19:29
Well, I use a proprietary blend of super honeybees because I know everything under the sun there is to know about Super honeybees and super honeybees are honeybees from around the globe and I'm sure we have some in the US I'm always on the hunt, that have some extraordinary property that science cannot replicate and manuka honey hap I disclosed that one because people understand that one specialist hit the mainstream, you know the cats out of the bag on that one. So, manuka honey is very special in that it can reverse antibiotic resistant bacteria. So for instance, if you had a wound on In your arm and you were systemically sick, you were septic. This is the thing. This is the colonization site just like your nose. And when the wound they're now infusing a military bandages, alginate bandages with manuka honey, when it is applied to the colonization site, suddenly, the pathogen can no longer create a biofilm to protect itself and all of a sudden antibiotics will work again if they're necessary or your own body can get ahead of it. So suddenly, at the at the colonization site, all of a sudden that pathogen is rendered helpless and it can no longer proliferate with the shell. The via the by the biofilm around it. It's fascinating to me.
David Sandstrom 20:39
Yeah, yeah. I have never heard that before. So honey has that property naturally?
Joyce Dales 20:47
Well, all you all honey has a unique peroxide activity. So that means if you apply it to a boo boo like I had a terrible little cat scratch here, so I put it on there. local raw honey perfect. All honey also has yeasts and molds. So if you are in a healing process where you're sensitive to those things, be aware, no one under the age of one should have it because honey naturally contains botulism and other pathogens from the bees. But yeah, all honey is medicinal to some extent. But we're not allowed to say that in the United States. Honey is not medicine. It's the most ancient medicine there is. It's medicine we were given. And when something has ups it once you eat it, it's neutralized. But these super honeys many of them can survive the whole journey. I like to joke I don't mean to crass from the rooter to the tooter the whole journey it's it maintains its medicinal activity. So the methylglyoxal they finally isolated why manuka honey is special and they have a rating system for it. And I used to get on the phone with the father of manuka honey for about a year before he died almost two years, and he taught me everything there is to know and I trust him and he helped me source my honey. There's a lot of corruption in the honey world, but I really trust my honey. So manuka honey has this product called methylglyoxal. And science has attempted to replicate it by adding methylglyoxal to ordinary raw honey but of course they failed because there is magic in the bees saliva and their enzymatic activity that cannot be replicated. So in the new colony, right, stop monkeying with what's already good.
David Sandstrom 22:22
Right we cannot improve upon perfection.
Joyce Dales 22:25
Right? Exactly. So there's other super honeys around the world but they don't know they do the same thing with regards to being anti microbial not just antibacterial but microbial which is viruses everything and but they don't they have an isolated why like Scottish Highland Heather Honey, if you can get your hands on a jar of the darkest Scottish Highland Heather honey, it's outperforming manuka. In some instances, there's honeys in Brazil that Japan has been studying that fight cancer, small cell lung cancer, there's honeys in the Pacific Rim that reverse hormone disruptions for Peri menopausal women and men. So there's so much out there that we don't know. And that's why I just wanted to keep my remedy simple and not adulterated. Because when you go to the store and you see something is honey based, and it's a marketing ploy, it's been changed or adulterated in some way that renders that honey useless. And I find that that's probably because of our own FDA regulatory systems forcing people to have to, in order to be profitable, do these things, but I tried to keep mine as simple as I could.
David Sandstrom 23:33
Yeah, really good. Yeah, well, you know, I say the same thing with food and the more man gets his hands on our food supply, the less healthy it is for us, right so we should be eating food as close to its God given natural design as we can, some processing is absolutely necessary. But we want to keep that to a minimum. And and I think that you know, since honey is food, the same thing applies here. You know, it's close to its natural form, minimally processed, and keeping as much of those natural properties intact. And yeah, it's well known for instance, propolis propolis spray is an excellent for the nasal biome and throat infections. And you know, and we all know that when you get a cold the first thing you get is a scratchy throat right and it's that's where the thing starts to proliferate. And it's that's our as you said, our nasal passages are the initial line of defense. So this is something worth thinking about. This is something worth exploring. So do you recommend that people use your products or prophylactically or as a preventative or should they only do it once they start you know, think suspect they have exposure?
Joyce Dales 24:43
All of the above because that was the thing that was missing when I was on my search for something to protect my family. I I love vitamin C and zinc and elderberry. But that's once you know, that's that's our only preventative options, and then other cold medicines that do Something about active symptoms come with a huge risk of side effects, especially if they're traditional OTC meds. So I wanted something that could do both. I like to say use Kobe gone three times a day if you're actively fighting an illness, especially if your nose is running. And then when it comes to just the regular cold and flu season, and you want to build your biome up one to three times a week before bed, and it's a tiny amount. It's like the size of an o on a keyboard. Like we do toothpaste for our toddlers, that tiny little bit is all it takes. Because you don't want to weigh your cilia down. You want to allow it to get in there, feed and replenish your bugs, restore your pH and get your moisture, right, potentially deal with anything that's latched on attempting to colonize. I make no curative claims. But I like to say use it like one to three times a week, like when my kids are at swim team. And I know there's a flu going around. We'll preemptively strike three times a week just to make sure there's nothing latched on because remember that dormancy phase can be up to two weeks long that you have.
David Sandstrom 26:01
That's amazing. I was not aware of that, that they can reside there for that long before they pose a problem. That's pretty amazing.
Joyce Dales 26:10
Generally, it's five days for the average human. It's five days.
David Sandstrom 26:13
Yeah. Okay. All right. Very good. So if you wanted to sum up what what we talked about today, what what would be the low hanging fruit or the most important thing that you'd like listeners to take with them from this episode?
Joyce Dales 26:28
That your nose is a biome, and it's your first line of defense. And you can really do something about how often and how severe you get sick. We should all be dieting, we should all be exercising, we should all be building our terrain. But here's something that can make you feel empowered today, right now, you know, because it takes months to get all of those other things in alignment. And you really if you pay attention to your nasal biome, then you can really impact how often you get sick and how often your family gets sick.
David Sandstrom 27:00
Yeah, very good. You know, there's one more thing I just want to remind the natural nation is that you said earlier is that honey can prevent the bacteria from forming the biofilm. And the biofilm in case you don't know is a way the bacteria defend themselves. So they they know they're under attack from your your immune system. So they developed this biofilm is kind of like a cocoon that they live in. And it's a shield from your defenses from your immune system. So if you can prevent that biofilm from forming, getting rid of that virus or bacteria is going to be a lot easier task. So I think as a huge point, I really think that's a massive point. I can see you've done your homework on this. Is there anything else about the nasal biome that people may not be aware of?
Joyce Dales 27:52
Don't shove just anything up there. People, a lot of people in the natural community especially in the last two years out of fear, I've been reading apple cider vinegar, and from some of my heroes, I've been reading things like apple cider vinegar and Colloidal Silver, straight up the nose and just be conscientious of if you are trying to protect yourself in the moment do do whatever you feel is right. But be conscientious of not destroying the terrain, not carpet bombing the area in an attempt to Achieve Wellness. Because there are so many there's so much beneficial bacteria and PAH and the your nasal mucosa cannot function. So you don't want to increase your risk in trying to deal with an immediate threat.
David Sandstrom 28:35
Do you go? Yeah, I like that. Yeah, don't don't overkill, we what we want to do is come alongside our body's natural processes and encourage those processes, not commandeer our system. The way pharmaceuticals do, right pharmaceuticals, they take over your system, they they shut down normal biological processes, they commandeer and take control. That's not really the best approach, the best approach is to come alongside our body's natural processes. And encourage them get the obstacles out of the way, and encourage our bodies to do what they already know how to do. We don't have to teach our cells how to do their jobs. They know what we got to do. Our jobs are to get the get the obstacles out of the way. And just sit back and let these magnificent machines that we live in these bodies do their thing, and they will take care of us.
Joyce Dales 29:24
We were designed perfectly. So why are we going to such great lengths. I mean every medicine has its place but I like to think what would happen naturally, I'm pretty sure in nature. Early man would have had their honey on their hands and pick their nose like that could have happened naturally. I don't know that they would have forced water up into their high sinuses. I don't think that would have happened.
David Sandstrom 29:48
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like how do they figure this stuff out to begin with, you know, how did they first learn what herbs you know how does elderberry help a virus and help fight it? Cold. People figured this out early on. I don't know how they did it, but you know, it's it's amazing the bounty that's available to us in nature.
Joyce Dales 30:09
That's right. You know, speaking of terrain, this little puppy behind me is rolling and rolling and rolling because she was cleaned. She was given a bath and she knows that is wrong for her. So she is trying to get find a patch of dirt to roll in. She wants to go restore little biome desperately.
David Sandstrom 30:27
Yeah, on his skin. Yeah, that's true. Animals. Animals are brilliant. I mean, they they just have an amazing ability to sense what they need. You know, and, and I think what what I've studied about herb, ology is that is how they figured out what herbs were medicinal. When an animal got sick and go out, wander around and find a certain leaf and eat it. And they wouldn't ordinarily eat it like, Hmm, maybe that has some medicinal value. Let's check that out. And that's that's how the the study of herbal medicine first started, was they watched animals, which is pretty cool. Alright, Joyce, it's been a pleasure talking with you. If someone wants to get a hold of some of your products or go deeper with you, what's the best way to get a hold of you or get your stuff?
Joyce Dales 31:12
You can reach me at my website, which is buzzagogo.com or coldbeegone.com with two E's dot com. You can reach out to me at Joyce@buzzagogo.com or any of my social media. I answer all my emails. Personally, I get a lot from moms with little ones with their first sniffles. I love to help with that. So reach out to me anytime.
David Sandstrom 31:30
All right, tourists has been a pleasure. Thank you for your time. Thank you. For more, go to the show notes page at davidsandstrom.com/ 98. There you can find an audio as well as a video version of the podcast. I also put a full transcript that's downloadable for free. And I always have some type of a content upgrade to help you go deeper with that subject. If you're enjoying the podcast, I sure would appreciate you telling a friend about it. You know this information is pretty hard to come by. And if you have a like minded friend, I believe they would appreciate you telling them about the show. Tell them how much you enjoy it and that you think they would enjoy it as well. I'll bet they'll thank you for it. That's all for now. As always, thank you for listening, and I'll talk with you next week. Be blessed