In this episode, I talk Sleep Expert and Founder of the Sleep Science Academy about how to get to sleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up more refreshed and alert.
Fear and anxiety will interfere with sleep. Download this FREE Chapter from my book "The Christian's Guide to Holistic Health" on overcoming fear and anxiety.
Show Notes
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Today's Guests...
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Topics Discussed...w / Time Stamps
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Transcript...
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Devin Burke 0:00
So a lot of the underlying patterns that we see that create insomnia or people that are very controlling, that are perfection is people that really care almost too much. Usually people that are very intellectual experience a lot of insomnia, it's treating it like a problem or putting on a pedestal. There's all these thought patterns that then create this underlying pressure that then keeps the body from again doing what it knows how to do, which is sleep, the body knows how to sleep.
David Sandstrom 0:29
Welcome to the Natural Health Matters podcast where it's all about maximizing your health potential, so that you can look and feel your best at any age. I'm your host, David Sandstrom, Naturopathic Doctor and Biblical Health Coach, and this is episode number 89.
David Sandstrom 0:46
Today, we have in the show, Devin Burke, Devin helps high achievers and exhausted insomniacs get and stay asleep. So they can wake up with more peace, power, and presence. He's a TEDx speaker, he is the best selling author of the sleep advantage. His books, programs and videos have inspired 1000s of people to improve their sleep, energy, and life. Devin, Welcome to Natural Health Matters.
Devin Burke 1:10
Thanks for having me, David, have decided to talk sleep with you.
David Sandstrom 1:14
Well, I really appreciate you taking the time. And I've been looking forward to this conversation because sleep is a major issue. It's a super important holistic health thing. And a lot of people have trouble with it. So tell us a little bit about what you do. Just give us the 35,000 foot view of what you do.
Devin Burke 1:31
Yeah, so we help Chronic Insomniacs, all over the United States mostly get and stay asleep using a holistic approach based in science. So essentially, what we do is we remove the mental and physical barriers to somebody doing what their body knows how to do which is sleep, versus giving them a band aid, like sleeping medication. That's that's the super quick version of what it is every day.
David Sandstrom 1:54
And how do you do that? Do you do one on one? Do you do online courses? Or groups? How do you do it?
Devin Burke 2:00
Yeah, it's a little bit of a combination of all of what you just mentioned. So there is an online curriculum, because people need to know the what the why and how, but then there's also the support piece. So we have one on one coaches that work with our clients. And then I do a an office hours once a week where people can actually receive additional coaching and support directly from me. And then we also leverage technology. So we you know, we're big believers in that, you know, you can't master what you don't measure. So we use a device that helps us help our clients by understanding the data. And and also it helps implement some of the techniques and strategies that we use across
David Sandstrom 2:01
Is that the order Auro Aura Ring?
Devin Burke 2:02
It is the Auroa Ring; Yes, it is,
David Sandstrom 2:03
Let's, let's put it on the shelf. Now, I definitely want to ask you about that going down the road here this that's super intriguing to me. So as we start off, oftentimes my guest there's a event in their lives that started their health journey, usually a significant event. Is that true with you? Is that the case with you?
Devin Burke 3:04
Yes, several events. So really, I mean, from a young age, I lost my grandfather from cancer. And, you know, that sort of was was a shock. And then several other family members from cancer. And my mom got into really into health. And then I got really into, you know, from her, and just losing my godmother and some other people in my family. And that kind of set me on this health trajectory, I would say, but it's been an unfolding journey ever since. Really, I mean, at the end of the day, who doesn't want to feel good in their body? Who doesn't want to have energy who doesn't want to wake up and be excited and passionate about what they're doing? And yeah, so but there's, there's been many events, but I from an early age, it was it was really lost. That kind of got me so interested in how do you Yeah,
David Sandstrom 3:52
I'm sorry to hear that about the loss of your family members. But you know what? It can those things can turn into something good, and it looks like it has in your life. So tell me a little bit tell the natural nation, the listeners a little bit about why sleep is so crucial.
Devin Burke 4:07
Aah, I love this question. And how I like to answer it is that it impacts every aspect of our life. And most people like aI wants to take it for granted, or they don't really understand how important sleep is. I mean, there's not an area of your life that isn't impacted by sleep. When I say not an area I mean not an area, longevity, focus, you know, emotional health, meaning your relationships, your your ability to come up with new creative ideas, learning memory. You know, every aspect of our lives is impacted positively or negatively based off of how well we slept. And so, you know, if you want to live long if you want to be creative and focus and have healthy relationships and be able to emotionally regulate and just feel good in your body will sleep is probably the best thing that you could deliver that you You could pull to, to rise all of those things in your life?
David Sandstrom 5:05
Absolutely. Was there a time in your life where you had trouble sleeping, and you had to learn this stuff for yourself?
Devin Burke 5:11
You know, I don't have a, you know, a direct story like that I get asked that all the time, it was actually someone I was working with. Before, about six years ago, before I devoted myself to really helping people with this unique issue. I was working with a lot of high performing entrepreneurs and somebody that I was working with, as you can imagine running a business running a family was having sleep issues. And when I looked into what was available for this particular client, I was really shocked that what I found was sleeping medication, that super strong side effects, that was a band aid solution. And then I stumbled into cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia which I saw, okay, this is this is valuable. But there's there's some areas that I think also could could use some upgrading. And so long story short, I found that's what I found. And then I also started to understand how important sleep was. So I was able to help this person. And I said, Well, if I can help this person, then I can help 1000s 1000s Millions of people, which millions of people have this issue. And that was really what what inspired me to denounce sleep Science Academy and the work that I do now in the world.
David Sandstrom 6:18
That is super cool. So a lot of people in my health coaching practice, I found trouble sleeping to be very, very common, and even in my personal life as well. So why do you think that is? Why do so many people struggle with sleep?
Devin Burke 6:37
So it's, it's a difficult question to answer. But from a 30,000 foot view, it's stress, you know, it's mental emotional stress, it's physical stress, it's environmental stress. It's also that solving sleep issues can be a bit confusing and paradoxical. It's the one thing that the harder you try it, the worse you get. And so people treat it like it's a problem. And sleep isn't a problem. It's a result or a lack of sleep, it's a result. So if you treat it like a problem, then it creates it creates a problem. So there's a lot of a lot of things don't seem to make sense. And it like you would think, Okay, well, I'm not sleeping well. So I should spend more time in bed. Well, actually, no, you shouldn't spend more time in bed, that's actually the opposite opposite we should do, because that anchors your bed, and bedroom with wakefulness or hyper arousal. That's one example of something that seems to make sense, but actually is counterintuitive. And there's many of those things when we talk about how to actually solve specifically insomnia. But you know, a lot of times people just don't even understand that what you do throughout your entire day dictates your experience at night, and vice versa. So there's this this sort of separation between our day and our night. And there really, there isn't like everything you do throughout your entire day dictates how well you're going to sleep how well you sleep dictates how will you show up the next day. And, and that can, you know, people get stuck on this paradox, this of not sleeping well, high stress. Because of the high stress, they don't sleep well. And then on and on, it goes.
David Sandstrom 8:10
Well, you know, personally, I've been there, I have been a professional airline pilot for the last 35 years, I fly for a major airline based out of Atlanta, Georgia. And I can tell you, there are times when you put your head on the pillow, and you're just lying there staring at the ceiling, a couple hours goes by and you say you know, if I don't get some sleep out, you know, this is going to be a big problem tomorrow morning, because we are required to call in fatigued, if we're not rested. It's a regulation, you know, you don't want your pilot up there showing up to work without any sleep. So you know, then you start having this cycle of thoughts. You know, what, what if I call in, they're going to have to cancel that flight in the morning, then all the rest of the series of flights I was supposed to do is going to be interrupted as well. You know, a couple of 100 people per plane we do sometimes four or five flights a day we're talking about nearly 1000 people will be impacted if I don't get to sleep. So
Devin Burke 8:59
Wow. You know, talk about an anxiety inducing thought, wow. Oh my god,
David Sandstrom 9:06
it's something you have to learn to deal with over the years, and I have used some natural remedies that help. One of the things I really enjoy is a product called Rescue Sleep. It's a homeopathic and it helps it doesn't really do anything to you physiologically, it does something to you mentally, emotionally, and it helps you calm the anxious thoughts. So if you're, if you're having anxious thoughts about what happened that day, or what might happen the next day, it's an excellent product that can really help relieve some of those insomnia symptoms. But, you know, I know that you have you have a long list of of things that you would like to see people not use. So what did you talk about a few of the things that you've seen people use effectively and and effectively over the years?
Devin Burke 9:50
Yeah, I mean, well, first and foremost, I think that, you know, there's a time and a place for some of what I'm about to share that I do but people need to understand that they're temporary in their band aids, like there's medical sleep medication is, is some of the most toxic medication that you can consume. It's also addictive, it has very strong side effects. And it's a big problem. And not to say that there's not a time and a place for sleep medication. But oftentimes, it's relied on. And then it becomes psychologically, there's a psychological component. And then there's the physiological component, depending on what you're taking how much you're taking. And I've seen people and I've, literally, David, I've spoken to 1000s of people over the last six years who've had this issue. And I, in some of these people have been on these medications for 30 years, and they're really supposed to be on these medications for no longer than four weeks. And then they go from medication to medication, and they're doing you know, they're trying supplements and medication and they go in and alcohol and the next thing, you know, their world is chaotic, and it's spiraling out of control. Right. And so, you know, that, again, those are band aids, they don't address the underlying cause, which most in most cases, it is between our ears, it's, you know, the thoughts and the beliefs, the the habits, the behaviors that we're doing, and we're not, we're not doing suppressed emotion, it's, it's, there's so many things that people just, for whatever reason, it's just not in their awareness that really needs to be looked at, and they need to be supported on it through to to then, you know, not have to struggle. So, so it, you know, supplements are great, too. But sometimes people use supplements. As a, you know, instead of medication, they're using supplements, and I think there's a time and a place for supplements. Sure, it can be helpful, what you take when you take it, all of that. But at the end of the day, if you if there's a real problem for you, you need to you need to address the the underlying root causes, right. And, you know, most people just either they don't have the proper support, or they just don't know where to start with, with how to actually do that. And that's, and that's why we're so successful at what we do is because that's what we we support people through,
David Sandstrom 12:14
you know, something you mentioned is that we get afraid that oh, man, this nice dress is going to be all messed up. And we kind of experience a fear. But I think it can come from other areas as well, just general fear in our lives. And this is a faith based show and I work versus coming to mind, it's proverbs 3:24. When you lie down, you will not be afraid. When you lie down, your sleep will be sweet. So there's a connection there biblically speaking from fear, and the ability to get a sound good night's rest. And I think for a lot of people, that's an issue if you if you are struggling with fear and anxiety, usually insomnia comes along with that. It's, it goes hand in hand. Very good.
Devin Burke 12:55
Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that what a what a beautiful proverb. And that's there's so much that's so true. That's the biggest thing that we help people overcome and understand. Because, you know, when you're in a state of fear, you are in a state of stress. And, and until you get out of stress, you know, the body doesn't rest. So fear is the the number one emotion that you know, we need to learn to work with and work through and allow to be there. And most of us don't have the proper tools or support to to understand where to even begin with that. Which is why the practice of acceptance embodied acceptance is one of the most transformational tools for sleep.
David Sandstrom 13:38
So that's a little bit more about that. What does that mean?
Devin Burke 13:41
Yeah, so So most most of us most of the time are in a state of resistance to we can just say what is. And so what we teach at our academy, and through our coaching is helping people learn how to accept things, even when they don't like them. And this could be uncomfortable sensations in the body. This could be events that happened that happened the way that they people didn't want them to happen. So there's one first, it starts with intellectualizing acceptance, but then you actually can start to what we call embody. And when you embody it, that's when your body actually comes into homeostasis, or resonance with its natural rhythm. And from that place your body sleeps. And so it does take practice and it will because we're so conditioned to be quite in the opposite all the time of what life's giving us. It's it's so a lot it doesn't seem to make sense of, Well, how I don't understand like, well, how if I'm accepting this, you know, people have a lot of confusion around it, but once it clicks, and you really We start to embody, you know, acceptance. Ah, it life gets lighter, your sleep gets better. It's just it's like magic. But it's, it has to be learned. And it's a practice. And it's not always an easy one. Because, again, most of us are trained in the opposite of acceptence where
David Sandstrom 15:20
Are you saying that acceptance means we're going to accept the idea that our to do list is never going to be 100% Complete? Or there's something that's imperfect that we'd like to see improve? That hasn't happened yet? Is that what you're talking about?
Devin Burke 15:33
Yeah, so I think there's a distinction between acceptance and resignation, I think a lot of people get confused. So you can accept something and still do something about it. But yes, like what you just mentioned, David would be perfect examples of just hey, you know, focusing on what's in your control or out of your control and knowing, you know, what actually is in your control. So, so a lot of the underlying patterns that we see that create insomnia are people that are very controlling, that are perfectionists perfectionist, people that really care a lot, almost too much about about and so there's certain patterns, thought patterns, beliefs, that tend to usually people that are very intellectual experience a lot of insomnia. You know, it's treating it like a problem or putting it on a pedestal, there's all these thought patterns that then create this underlying pressure that then keeps the body from again, doing what it knows how to do, which is sleep, the body knows how to sleep.
David Sandstrom 16:34
That's an excellent point. And I wanted to bring it up again, I'm glad you did is that our bodies know how to sleep, right? And they know how to wake up when it's time. And I quick story, I used to wear glasses, I'm 59 years old. And when I was fourty years old, my vision started to get weaker and never wore glasses up to that point. But then I had to go get some some distant glasses. I had to wear glasses for my distance vision. And everybody you know, the older guys at my profession said, oh, yeah, happens everybody around 40 years old. Well, I wore my glasses for a couple years, I had 20-70 distant vision. And then I came across a method called the Bates method for vision improvement. And I bought an audio course. And I did that program. And I threw away my glasses. I'm 59 years old, and I still have 202-0 vision or better. Don't wear glasses anymore. And you know, the ophthalmologist will tell you Well, yeah, when you get older, your cornea gets harder. And it's harder for your your eyes to focus on things so that that's why you need glasses, you need my services for the rest of your life. Well, if that were true, I would not have been able to throw away my glasses for the last almost two decades. And so it reminds me a lot of people say Oh, so it's exercises for the eyes? Well, no, it's not is it actually the exact opposite. It's more like yoga for the eyes. And you stop trying, you stop the striving, you stop the squinting in the staring and you just let your eyes do what they know how to do is connect with your brain. And your vision improves. It's, it's amazing. And I was reminded of that when you said, yeah, just let your body do what it already knows how to do it. That's exactly right. As a naturopath, we want to lean on that God given wisdom of the body, to let it do what it already knows how to do our jobs as practitioners is to just get the obstacles out of the way.
Devin Burke 18:22
That's it, you know, I mean, I couldn't agree with you more. And it's, it's really that simple. And the you know, I call it innate intelligence or, you know, you can call it God or, you know, there's a lot of names for it. But it's like, we just get in the way. And so the more we can get out of the way. It's like you don't have to think about your heart beating, you don't have to think about your lungs breathing that happens, you know, how is it happening? That's beyond our understanding. So it's so it's like, it's the same thing with sleep. And soon as people get that, and I mean, they really get it. All of a sudden, even after 30 years of trying all the things, the therapies, the functional medicine, all the things. All of a sudden they start to sleep, and they think it's a miracle. And it's not it's not a miracle. It's just, I mean, yeah, it is a miracle because our bodies are miracle, it's kind of a miracle. But it's not the, you know, a miracle in the way that I think that most people are thinking about it as a miracle. It's, it's the natural miracle
David Sandstrom 19:27
So. So could you share some of the techniques that you teach people you mentioned starting earlier in the day, not just thinking about sleep when it's bedtime, but thinking about preparing for your night's sleep throughout the day? What are some of the things you share with your clients?
David Sandstrom 19:40
Yeah, one of the big things that is so simple to do, but what's simple to do sometimes it's challenging for people to actually execute on is actually not have your schedule back to back. We work with a lot of high performing entrepreneurs, business owners, also moms, grandmas. But a lot of times people that have these hectic schedules, they don't allow us Ace in their day. And the reason why that creates an issue is because the body builds up tension and pressure. Or you can, we can call it stress. And if you're not discharging that throughout the day, you take that with you right into your night. And we call that taking the day into the night. So we we teach people to take micro breaks throughout the day to discharge some of that tension and pressure that builds up. And it's not always bad stress, it could be you're really focused on a project that you love, and you're an architect and you're designing a home. And it's like, super exciting. There's still an energetic aspect of contraction that needs to be released after a period of of intense focus. And when you do that, we call it releasing the pressure valve throughout the day, there's not so much pressure to release when you're in bed.
David Sandstrom 20:46
Oh, that makes total sense to me.
Devin Burke 20:49
Yeah, it's real simple. And when people get that, and they actually implement it, it improves their sleep. And not just for some people, like all people.
David Sandstrom 21:01
Yeah, well, now that brings up the concept of the aura ring, I know you were you were the aura ring. And it gives you a snapshot or a picture, so to speak, so to speak of your stress levels throughout the day and how you're handling stress. Let's talk about the ordering a little bit.
Devin Burke 21:17
Yeah, I mean, it's an amazing device. What it does is it just just like you'd go and get a blood test, and you say, Oh, you have high cholesterol, go on this diet or take this medication or you know, it gives you information. And then what you do with that information is up to you. But what the aura ring does is it measures some really important metrics that help people understand their bodies. And the more you can understand the body, the more you can take action to improve. And so heart rate, heart rate variability, that's a measure of stress. It measures sleep stages, body temperature, it measures sleep efficiency, time in bed, sleep latency, how fast you fall asleep, it has all these things that have measures and essentially it just gave, it's gathering this data, so that you can see when you start to implement some of the simple strategies that we teach are that you are hearing right now, you can see the impact that actually makes and seeing then makes it easier to continue to execute on. And that's really the value of it. Because people can see the data and like, oh, wow, I practice this box breathing technique, or I took, you know, micro breaks throughout the day. And they actually see what that created for them at night. Or I cut out alcohol or eating, you know, sugary foods too close to bedtime. Oh, wow, look, I slept better. And they only need powerful motivator. It is extremely powerful. And it and another reason why the Auroa Ring is amazing. And we love it is because oftentimes people very oftentimes people underestimate the amount of sleep that they're actually getting. And the aura ring, because you're coming in and out of consciousness. A lot of people are like, oh, you know, I feel like I'm only getting two hours asleep. And then after you put the aura ring on, they see okay, well, I actually getting four hours of sleep maybe four and a half hours. That's a big difference. Yeah. So so it kind of brings to light it makes the unconscious conscious. And whenever you make the unconscious conscious, beautiful things happen, because now you have an opportunity to to really work with something.
David Sandstrom 23:21
Yeah, yeah. And that information can give you so much insight. As you mentioned food. I mean, it may be it's a troublesome food that you've been eating for dinner, or maybe later in the evening that is causing your problem. And you could see well what I eat that I have the data to support it up. It's not just how refreshed it I feel in the morning, I have some objective data that says yeah, my sleep was compromised. So man that can be so useful. Sometimes, identifying food sensitivities can be difficult. Even with with bloodwork and expensive testing, you sometimes don't really know what's going on, but that would be a really good way to monitor I, I'm excited about getting one of those things, I'm gonna have to order one.
Devin Burke 24:03
Yeah, it's worth the investment. And I have no financial interest in the company. I wish I did. Because I've probably sold hundreds of 1000s of dollars worth of these devices, but it's all good, I'm happy that exists. And it because it helps to helps us help people. So yeah, it's it's, you know, it's powerful. When you have information, you can then take action on that information, especially if you have somebody that's knowledgeable that can guide you through that. You know, if you don't know what to do with the information that can backfire, and it can actually harm your sleep. Because we get people all the time that get the Aura Ring, and then they're trying to do it on they don't understand what to do or how to do it. And then it's creating more just telling them every night they're sleeping like crap. And they're trying all these things they read on the internet, and they're still sleeping terrible. And it reinforces this belief that they're broken and then so you know, do be careful about you know devices. If you're going to track something, make sure you get the proper support like you don't try to read your own blog. work unless you're, you know, a naturopathic doctor like David right, or you know what I mean, like you went to school to understand how to do that. So same thing here with with with some sleep data, it's something that you, you know, leave it to the experts to help guide you through it.
David Sandstrom 25:16
Excellent advice. So you mentioned, people that have high stress jobs, creating some more whitespace in the calendar. That's one of the good techniques for a better night's rest. What's, what's some of the other low hanging fruit that you can recommend?
Devin Burke 25:30
Oh, it's so simple, you know, whatever you can get outside first thing in the morning, get light on your skin, that's going to help with your circadian clock. And it's, you know, we can get into the sort of the hormonal cascade of why that happens and all that, but essentially, just when you wake up, get outside, and if you can, as a bonus, get your feet on the ground, you know, the Schumann Resonance, this frequency that the Earth has, that'll help keep your circadian clock synced, if you could watch the sunset, and sunrise, that would be tremendous for your circadian clock, as well as going to bed at the same time and waking up at the same time. Real simple, easy to do. Hydration, we lose about a liter of water throughout the night through respiration and sweat. So make sure that you drink, you know a liter of water, at least, you know, within the first hour or two upon waking versus going right into your coffee, which is a diuretic, which is you know, acidic. You know, save that for an hour or two after after your body's already hydrated, your cortisol levels are starting to drop, that's when you have that nice cup of coffee not not first thing in the morning. So I mean, start how you start your morning also dictates sort of how the rest of the day goes. So you know, bookending your day, you know is really important. And starting off with some from a place of peace and power versus from from a place of chaos. And stress really does a huge it makes a huge difference with again, how much you have to discharge at the end of the day, Nor for your body to then relax enough for sleep to come.
David Sandstrom 27:11
Very good. That's a lot of great information there. So you mentioned grounding with the earth. I'm a firm believer in that myself and I have some earthing sheets. Are you familiar with those?
Devin Burke 27:22
I'm very familiar with earthing sheets and I David I just got myself a pair of earthing sandals, which Yeah, which are pretty cool. So you can walk around and you know, they look a little funky, they kind of look like Jesus sandals. That, you know, this is a faith based channel. So, you know, who wouldn't want to put on some Jesus and
David Sandstrom 27:40
more Christ, like just leave just $19.95
Devin Burke 27:44
That's it, that's it. But yeah, I'm a big believer, you know, I think that the more that we the further we get from nature, the more issues we have. So anything that you can bring you back to natural rhythms is gonna help with your with your your health and your sleep. So, you know, grounding, grounding, Mat grounding sheets, grounding sandals. You know, there's some very interesting technology coming out that can block certain types of, you know, EMFs electromagnetic frequencies that can sort of impact hypersensitive people. But at the end of the day, the Easy, easy thing to do is just get your feet on the ground. You know, that's pretty easy.
David Sandstrom 28:27
So I'm assuming you shut your phone off at night or put it in another room.
Devin Burke 28:31
Yeah, I turned it off. So I turned it off. And yeah, it's it's pretty, pretty simple to do. I mean, people have a hard time I get a lot of pushback on that from people well, what if my kids call or you know, you know, mother's sick or something like that, and I understand that so you know, it might not be appropriate time for everyone to do that. But if you can, that makes a difference. You're not getting this this magnetic frequency blaring at your on your on your body for the hopefully eight hours that you're in bed.
David Sandstrom 29:05
You know, another thing I do is I have we have Wi Fi in the house, which is not the healthiest thing in the world. But you know, today's day and age you know, we use it we use it a lot throughout the day. So I've kind of conceded that one little unhealthy habit is to have some Wi Fi but I have it on a timer and it goes off at 10pm and it doesn't come back on till six in the morning. Unless I get up earlier I turn it on but at least when I'm sleeping, the Wi Fi is off.
Devin Burke 29:29
Me too. It's so simple and you can get one on Amazon for like you know 510 bucks, a little cheap timer. Yeah, it's so easy. It's like and you don't that little that that that makes a difference. I mean you don't have to like sleep in a mosquito net EMF blocker, you know or paint your walls I do have some people I know that that go to that extent. And you know you get to that but you know if you don't want to do that just start with the simple stuff like like you said, the grounding sheets or the timer for the for the Wi Fi
David Sandstrom 29:59
You know, we're all individuals, and everyone's going to react differently to these these different blocking factors. But a quick story I used to live in West Palm Beach. And I think it was something like 2007, we had three hurricanes back to back. And two of those hurricanes, the eye went over right or right over my house. And it was late September, and there was a followed up by a cold front. So when everyone lost power, and then there was a cold front, so we opened our windows. And you know, for Florida, a cold was, you know, 65 degrees. But everyone that I talked to said, Man, that three days that we were without power, I've never slept so good. That was crazy. How nice. I slept that that week. And I think it has a lot to do with the fresh air and the lack of electromagnetic frequencies in the room.
David Sandstrom 30:49
That's a great story. And, you know, to kind of piggyback on that story, there's actually a they took, it was it was a research they took, I think it was about 20 insomniacs, they took them out into nature, sleeping in a tent for a couple of days. And I forget the exact number, but it was it was close to it was over 90% of them. They slept, and they slept well. Just being outside. Yeah, sleeping in a tent where you think, oh, you know, I'm not going to sleep? Well, you know, I'm sleeping on a mat. And you know, I don't have my mattress and my air conditioner and whatever. It's, it really is. I mean, there's something to that. There's absolutely something just to you know, so how do you how do you bring that back into your, your everyday life is is it can be a challenge, for sure.
David Sandstrom 31:40
It can be Yeah. And that's why I love the earthing products, I have the sheet I have the pillowcase, I have the mat that I can put under my office desk. And it's a way to fight back. You know, it's not perfect, but man, it is very useful. I'm a huge fan of those earthlings products. It's just, I sleep better. I wake up more alert on all the things we're talking about, you know, it's just it improves your quality of life at almost all levels, a better night's sleep.
Devin Burke 32:07
Yeah, absolutely. And the thing, the thing that gets a little tricky for people David is, most people don't, aren't sleeping well, and they don't know it. And they then it doesn't become they don't really realize how bad they feel until you start to feel good. So it becomes this subjective thing where people like, Oh, I feel pretty good, I sleep pretty good. But then when you really start to analyze it, even for people that don't have like, sleep issues, and you see, well, you're not getting enough deep sleep or REM sleep, there's there's so much more you you could possible, if you improve the quality of that sleep, you would just feel even that much more better. Like you don't realize that right now you might be feeling you know, you're at 75%, you could be at like 95%.
David Sandstrom 32:50
And you might have been at that 75% for so long that it feels normal.
Devin Burke 32:54
That Exactly, exactly. And that's, that's That's unfortunate.
David Sandstrom 32:58
Yeah, it is. So do you have any recommendations for falling asleep faster, sometimes people say well, I'm sleeping, okay. But it takes me a long time to get to sleep, any recommendations there.
Devin Burke 33:11
We call it a bed buffer. And what that means is, again, people take their days into their nights. So having we practice a bed buffer, and that's part of our three to one sleep. So three hours before bed, you stop eating, because that gets in the way of deep sleep, which is what we get most of in the first quarter the night, two hours before you want to be asleep, you stop working. And then one hour before you want to go to you want to be asleep, you implement a bedtime routine. And this is sleep hygiene. So your habits and rituals around sleep. So that could look like taking a hot shower to drop your body temperature. Because our core body temperature needs to drop between two to three respire nights and do sleep that look like reading a book. I usually like to read spiritual books. Right now I'm reading this fantastic book about a man who was silent for 17 years and walked for 22 years and his diary. Just fascinating book. Yeah, really cool, called Planet Walker. So anyway, a book that's non stimulating a book that sort of can, it's that's relaxing, doing something that's going to get you into the parasympathetic nervous system response will help your body fall asleep faster. The thing that people need to understand is you can't rush sleep, and in trying to do so you will actually it'll take you longer. So you can't will or force or try to control your sleep, the more you try to do that. The longer it's going to take you to fall asleep and the worse you're going to sleep.
David Sandstrom 34:30
Right? It's going to work against you even though don't feel that way. That's what happens.
Devin Burke 34:34
Yeah, you can't it's like and it's like, ah, if I felt you know, that's if you find yourself and you're getting frustrated, or you're trying to like I need to be asleep by this time and you're getting like that's just going to you're going to continue to not sleep well. And it's going to take a long time. So just again, if you're having issues, practice acceptance, but do the things that I just mentioned, you know, three to one sleep, the bed buffer, those things make a huge difference as far as sleep latency.
David Sandstrom 34:58
You know Something else I want to mention to you mentioned, we use up a lot of water during during sleep because we're detoxifying and we're losing hydration every time we take a breath and exhale as well. So I like to drink a couple of eight ounce glasses of water. As soon as I wake up, I brush my teeth first. But then the first thing I'll do is get a couple glasses of water. And, you know, it sounds like a lot when people first start that habit. But man, once you do it, you can really miss it, if you don't get a chance to do that, because it's your body is craving hydration first thing in the morning.
Devin Burke 35:30
Yeah, and the quality of your water is really important I've experimented this with over the years. And you know, if people that if you're not drinking pure water, like good water, your it tastes bad in your body doesn't absorb it as much. Like I know, for me, when I drink really good water, I can drink way more of it because my body recognizes that this is clean, good natural spring water, you know, out of glass bottle, or, you know, we have a Berkey filter here, because the water here in Florida isn't very good. You know, filters out the fluoride and all the heavy metals and things like that. But you know, the quality of water, it'll taste better, and your body will be able to handle more of it. If you if you're getting high quality water.
David Sandstrom 36:12
Yeah, absolutely. And spring water is the best.
Devin Burke 36:16
Yeah, I agree. Yep. And if you can, if you're going to buy it, buy the glass in glass bottles, I love mountain valleys, a great company and Aqupana is another one of those waters, that water you can drink goes down and the body knows it's good stuff.
David Sandstrom 36:30
Mountain Valley is the most delicious water I've ever tasted. It's incredible.
Devin Burke 36:35
It is it is it really is. I don't know about you if you've had that experience, but I can drink more water when I'm drinking that water versus like, yeah, you know, Dasani or some other? Like, I don't know what it is, it's just my body can drink more of that stuff?
David Sandstrom 36:50
Absolutely. Your body knows, you know, it just knows is kind of like, you know, a dog can sense fear on you. It's like your body can sense the energetic vibration from what you're putting in your mouth. It does. And you can feel it.
Devin Burke 37:04
I can, I know I can. And I think sometimes a lot of a lot of times, maybe we're hyperstimulated, or we're not as in tune to our bodies. Sometimes I found that some people don't eat aren't even connected to their body at all. They're just in their head, right? Like all the time. And so the more you can connect it to your body, create body awareness and sort of create a little bit more hyper awareness to your physical body, I think you can start to really understand how some of the things we're sharing that might sound a little woowoo actually make perfect sense.
David Sandstrom 37:36
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, you know, it's my contention. I haven't said this yet on this episode. But it's my contention that we maximize our health potential when we align our lives more fully, with God's natural design for spirit, mind and body. And that falls right into what you're saying, We have to get into it. Our bodies are always talking to us. They tell us when we're thirsty, they tell us when we're tired. They tell us when we're itchy, sweaty, you name it. There's there's a lot of things that our bodies a lot of ways the body will communicate with us if we just pay attention.
Devin Burke 38:08
Yeah, what do you why do you think so many people don't pay attention? What do you think? You know, what's your thoughts on that? David?
David Sandstrom 38:14
I think I think what Stephen Covey would call the tyranny of the urgent, you know, we're so busy putting out fires, and trying to accomplish things during the day, that we've we've lost the art of just being still and just turning inward. You know, I don't think we were ever I firmly believe this, we were never created to carry the stress of the world in our pocket, like we do with ourselves said, wow, you know, we are constantly being bombarded with, you know, the earthquake, the shooting, you name it, the wars. You know, centuries ago, people never had to deal with that burden. But we do. And I think it's very important that we make a conscious effort to disconnect once in a while, not that we don't care about those people and what's going on, I think there's a time and a place to pray for those people and do what we can. But there's also a time and a place to let it go. And understand that I have limits to what I can do. And worrying about this 24/7 is not doing anybody any good.
Devin Burke 39:17
Well said, We so we call we have a term for what you just said at our academy. And we call it controlling the inputs. So oftentimes people don't are not taking responsibility for the inputs, the inputs of what's going into their brain coming from the things that's in their pocket in their TV. And if you're not consciously controlling that it's controlling you. And that's dangerous, because you're going to be stressed, you're going to be in fear, you're going to be confused, and you're going to be easily manipulated. To be honest. A lot of times people are and they're not even aware of it, and so disconnecting and I think getting to stillness is one of the most powerful things, just, you know, in general for health, but also for sleep and for just being connected. So there's, you know, it's it's a, it's so needed to stillness is so yeah.
David Sandstrom 40:14
Well, you know, as you know, I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. And Jesus modeled that for us. There were times we see in the Gospel account that Jesus was ministering to the big crowds and the the whole town showed up and he was talking healing people and very busy. And then there were other times where he spent the time alone with the disciples, the small group setting. And then there were plenty of times where the Bible records that Jesus pulled away in the heat that nobody knew where he was. And he was spending some time in prayer and fasting. That's a good model for us to follow. We don't want to be isolated from the world, we don't want to be isolated from friendships and relationships. that's those are very important health building components. But at the same time, we've got to make sure we've got some alone time we've got some downtime, because that's just as important as well, we got it we need to balance,
Devin Burke 41:01
man, that is, that is amazing. Yeah, it's interesting, like studying the lives of saints, one of the things I like to study is, you know, there's a couple things in common is what you just said, there's a lot of nature time, there's a lot of silent time. There's also teachers, right? So nature, silence, and teachers, and then there's community. And, you know, it's like, you study the lives of saints, they tell you a lot about, you know, not just spiritual wisdom, but wisdom that our bodies can thrive with all those things. Keep a healthy mind, healthy body healthy spirit. And it's just, it's really, it's right there. For us. It's just a matter of us making the decision to, to honor it, and fun to follow it. And it's not easy in the world we live in because, you know, it's, it's, there's a lot of noise. And, and it's so it really does take a I think, a disciplined I don't wanna say discipline, I would say deliberate, deliberate, deliberate, dedicated. Yeah, yeah. And to, to really to to honor those things. And, and, and what I know for a fact when I, when I do those follow those those steps, man, do I sleep better? Do I feel better? Am I I'm just better all around. And? And that's, you know, it's it's not? It's not complicated?
David Sandstrom 42:22
Yeah. I couldn't agree more. You just, you're, you're nailing it. Absolutely. So if there were one thing you want people to remember from this conversation, Devin, what would it be?
Devin Burke 42:33
It would be to remember that sleep is a natural biological process that happens when you allow it that and so if you're listening to this, and you're having sleep issues, chances are you've been trying to supplements and you've been trying to the maybe even meditation and all these other things, you know, just, if you can just stop trying, and just start trusting, then you're going to sleep better. And, you know, sometimes that's that's hard to do by yourself. So get the support. If you're if you're really struggling, and you're listening to
David Sandstrom 43:03
this. And you have a book, right? It's called the sleep advantage.
Devin Burke 43:07
Yes, sleep advantage is a great place to start. And it's really it's, you know, a simple guide to understanding what to do what not to do to improve your quantity and quality of sleep. It's not loaded with science, just enough science to keep you motivated to take action on the step by step that I share in
David Sandstrom 43:28
the book. And what's the best way for somebody to pick one up?
Devin Burke 43:31
So it's on it's available on Amazon? And for those of you that don't like to read a recorded on Audible for you.
David Sandstrom 43:36
Excellent. Is it as you did the recording?
Devin Burke 43:41
I did. And I'm a much more of a speaker than I am a writer. And it's I think the audio version is way, way better. But that's just I'm a bits of, you know, bias here. So
David Sandstrom 43:52
I did I did my audio is well, a Christians guide to Holistic Health, and I've sold far more audible versions than paperbacks.
Devin Burke 44:00
Yeah, I think people enjoy listening. And especially, you know, the person that wrote it put the heart and soul into getting that information into people's hands. Yeah, it's, you know, that comes through, I think, in the presentation.
David Sandstrom 44:13
So one last thing is I know that you do some free consults for people. Let's just mention that for if you would,
Devin Burke 44:18
yeah. So anyone that's listening to this that has chronic insomnia, that you feel like you've tried everything, and you're still not sleeping, we'd be happy to, to offer you a console and see if our approach might be the right approach for you. It might it might be it might not be, but we were happy to explore and see if it is excellent. And what's the best way to get ahold of you see, sleep science academy.com. And there'll be links to all different types of things, quizzes, master classes, and the free concert offer there as well.
David Sandstrom 44:47
And where do you spend your time on social media?
Devin Burke 44:50
So Devin Burke wellness, on all the social channels in so so we just really started to ramp up the social channels and not much of a social media. You guy but But lately, I've been putting out a lot of content on YouTube. So Sleep Science Aademy on YouTube, that Deborah Burke, wellness, you'll,
David Sandstrom 45:08
you'll find me there. Excellent. All right, Devin, is there anything else you'd like to share before we wrap things up?
Devin Burke 45:14
I appreciate you having me on the show. And I I truly hope that people don't just listen to this information, but they take action on it so it can change their health in their life.
David Sandstrom 45:23
Excellent. Well, thank you for your time, Devuin. I appreciate it.
Devin Burke 45:27
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me, David.
David Sandstrom 45:30
For more, go to the show notes page at davidsandstrom.com/89. There you can find it audio as well as a video version of the podcast. I always put links to all the resources that we mentioned, a full transcript with timestamps and a content upgrade of some sort to help you go deeper with that subject. Thanks for listening. I'll talk with you next week. Be blessed
So a lot of the underlying patterns that we see that create insomnia or people that are very controlling, that are perfection is people that really care almost too much. Usually people that are very intellectual experience a lot of insomnia, it's treating it like a problem or putting on a pedestal. There's all these thought patterns that then create this underlying pressure that then keeps the body from again doing what it knows how to do, which is sleep, the body knows how to sleep.
David Sandstrom 0:29
Welcome to the Natural Health Matters podcast where it's all about maximizing your health potential, so that you can look and feel your best at any age. I'm your host, David Sandstrom, Naturopathic Doctor and Biblical Health Coach, and this is episode number 89.
David Sandstrom 0:46
Today, we have in the show, Devin Burke, Devin helps high achievers and exhausted insomniacs get and stay asleep. So they can wake up with more peace, power, and presence. He's a TEDx speaker, he is the best selling author of the sleep advantage. His books, programs and videos have inspired 1000s of people to improve their sleep, energy, and life. Devin, Welcome to Natural Health Matters.
Devin Burke 1:10
Thanks for having me, David, have decided to talk sleep with you.
David Sandstrom 1:14
Well, I really appreciate you taking the time. And I've been looking forward to this conversation because sleep is a major issue. It's a super important holistic health thing. And a lot of people have trouble with it. So tell us a little bit about what you do. Just give us the 35,000 foot view of what you do.
Devin Burke 1:31
Yeah, so we help Chronic Insomniacs, all over the United States mostly get and stay asleep using a holistic approach based in science. So essentially, what we do is we remove the mental and physical barriers to somebody doing what their body knows how to do which is sleep, versus giving them a band aid, like sleeping medication. That's that's the super quick version of what it is every day.
David Sandstrom 1:54
And how do you do that? Do you do one on one? Do you do online courses? Or groups? How do you do it?
Devin Burke 2:00
Yeah, it's a little bit of a combination of all of what you just mentioned. So there is an online curriculum, because people need to know the what the why and how, but then there's also the support piece. So we have one on one coaches that work with our clients. And then I do a an office hours once a week where people can actually receive additional coaching and support directly from me. And then we also leverage technology. So we you know, we're big believers in that, you know, you can't master what you don't measure. So we use a device that helps us help our clients by understanding the data. And and also it helps implement some of the techniques and strategies that we use across
David Sandstrom 2:01
Is that the order Auro Aura Ring?
Devin Burke 2:02
It is the Auroa Ring; Yes, it is,
David Sandstrom 2:03
Let's, let's put it on the shelf. Now, I definitely want to ask you about that going down the road here this that's super intriguing to me. So as we start off, oftentimes my guest there's a event in their lives that started their health journey, usually a significant event. Is that true with you? Is that the case with you?
Devin Burke 3:04
Yes, several events. So really, I mean, from a young age, I lost my grandfather from cancer. And, you know, that sort of was was a shock. And then several other family members from cancer. And my mom got into really into health. And then I got really into, you know, from her, and just losing my godmother and some other people in my family. And that kind of set me on this health trajectory, I would say, but it's been an unfolding journey ever since. Really, I mean, at the end of the day, who doesn't want to feel good in their body? Who doesn't want to have energy who doesn't want to wake up and be excited and passionate about what they're doing? And yeah, so but there's, there's been many events, but I from an early age, it was it was really lost. That kind of got me so interested in how do you Yeah,
David Sandstrom 3:52
I'm sorry to hear that about the loss of your family members. But you know what? It can those things can turn into something good, and it looks like it has in your life. So tell me a little bit tell the natural nation, the listeners a little bit about why sleep is so crucial.
Devin Burke 4:07
Aah, I love this question. And how I like to answer it is that it impacts every aspect of our life. And most people like aI wants to take it for granted, or they don't really understand how important sleep is. I mean, there's not an area of your life that isn't impacted by sleep. When I say not an area I mean not an area, longevity, focus, you know, emotional health, meaning your relationships, your your ability to come up with new creative ideas, learning memory. You know, every aspect of our lives is impacted positively or negatively based off of how well we slept. And so, you know, if you want to live long if you want to be creative and focus and have healthy relationships and be able to emotionally regulate and just feel good in your body will sleep is probably the best thing that you could deliver that you You could pull to, to rise all of those things in your life?
David Sandstrom 5:05
Absolutely. Was there a time in your life where you had trouble sleeping, and you had to learn this stuff for yourself?
Devin Burke 5:11
You know, I don't have a, you know, a direct story like that I get asked that all the time, it was actually someone I was working with. Before, about six years ago, before I devoted myself to really helping people with this unique issue. I was working with a lot of high performing entrepreneurs and somebody that I was working with, as you can imagine running a business running a family was having sleep issues. And when I looked into what was available for this particular client, I was really shocked that what I found was sleeping medication, that super strong side effects, that was a band aid solution. And then I stumbled into cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia which I saw, okay, this is this is valuable. But there's there's some areas that I think also could could use some upgrading. And so long story short, I found that's what I found. And then I also started to understand how important sleep was. So I was able to help this person. And I said, Well, if I can help this person, then I can help 1000s 1000s Millions of people, which millions of people have this issue. And that was really what what inspired me to denounce sleep Science Academy and the work that I do now in the world.
David Sandstrom 6:18
That is super cool. So a lot of people in my health coaching practice, I found trouble sleeping to be very, very common, and even in my personal life as well. So why do you think that is? Why do so many people struggle with sleep?
Devin Burke 6:37
So it's, it's a difficult question to answer. But from a 30,000 foot view, it's stress, you know, it's mental emotional stress, it's physical stress, it's environmental stress. It's also that solving sleep issues can be a bit confusing and paradoxical. It's the one thing that the harder you try it, the worse you get. And so people treat it like it's a problem. And sleep isn't a problem. It's a result or a lack of sleep, it's a result. So if you treat it like a problem, then it creates it creates a problem. So there's a lot of a lot of things don't seem to make sense. And it like you would think, Okay, well, I'm not sleeping well. So I should spend more time in bed. Well, actually, no, you shouldn't spend more time in bed, that's actually the opposite opposite we should do, because that anchors your bed, and bedroom with wakefulness or hyper arousal. That's one example of something that seems to make sense, but actually is counterintuitive. And there's many of those things when we talk about how to actually solve specifically insomnia. But you know, a lot of times people just don't even understand that what you do throughout your entire day dictates your experience at night, and vice versa. So there's this this sort of separation between our day and our night. And there really, there isn't like everything you do throughout your entire day dictates how well you're going to sleep how well you sleep dictates how will you show up the next day. And, and that can, you know, people get stuck on this paradox, this of not sleeping well, high stress. Because of the high stress, they don't sleep well. And then on and on, it goes.
David Sandstrom 8:10
Well, you know, personally, I've been there, I have been a professional airline pilot for the last 35 years, I fly for a major airline based out of Atlanta, Georgia. And I can tell you, there are times when you put your head on the pillow, and you're just lying there staring at the ceiling, a couple hours goes by and you say you know, if I don't get some sleep out, you know, this is going to be a big problem tomorrow morning, because we are required to call in fatigued, if we're not rested. It's a regulation, you know, you don't want your pilot up there showing up to work without any sleep. So you know, then you start having this cycle of thoughts. You know, what, what if I call in, they're going to have to cancel that flight in the morning, then all the rest of the series of flights I was supposed to do is going to be interrupted as well. You know, a couple of 100 people per plane we do sometimes four or five flights a day we're talking about nearly 1000 people will be impacted if I don't get to sleep. So
Devin Burke 8:59
Wow. You know, talk about an anxiety inducing thought, wow. Oh my god,
David Sandstrom 9:06
it's something you have to learn to deal with over the years, and I have used some natural remedies that help. One of the things I really enjoy is a product called Rescue Sleep. It's a homeopathic and it helps it doesn't really do anything to you physiologically, it does something to you mentally, emotionally, and it helps you calm the anxious thoughts. So if you're, if you're having anxious thoughts about what happened that day, or what might happen the next day, it's an excellent product that can really help relieve some of those insomnia symptoms. But, you know, I know that you have you have a long list of of things that you would like to see people not use. So what did you talk about a few of the things that you've seen people use effectively and and effectively over the years?
Devin Burke 9:50
Yeah, I mean, well, first and foremost, I think that, you know, there's a time and a place for some of what I'm about to share that I do but people need to understand that they're temporary in their band aids, like there's medical sleep medication is, is some of the most toxic medication that you can consume. It's also addictive, it has very strong side effects. And it's a big problem. And not to say that there's not a time and a place for sleep medication. But oftentimes, it's relied on. And then it becomes psychologically, there's a psychological component. And then there's the physiological component, depending on what you're taking how much you're taking. And I've seen people and I've, literally, David, I've spoken to 1000s of people over the last six years who've had this issue. And I, in some of these people have been on these medications for 30 years, and they're really supposed to be on these medications for no longer than four weeks. And then they go from medication to medication, and they're doing you know, they're trying supplements and medication and they go in and alcohol and the next thing, you know, their world is chaotic, and it's spiraling out of control. Right. And so, you know, that, again, those are band aids, they don't address the underlying cause, which most in most cases, it is between our ears, it's, you know, the thoughts and the beliefs, the the habits, the behaviors that we're doing, and we're not, we're not doing suppressed emotion, it's, it's, there's so many things that people just, for whatever reason, it's just not in their awareness that really needs to be looked at, and they need to be supported on it through to to then, you know, not have to struggle. So, so it, you know, supplements are great, too. But sometimes people use supplements. As a, you know, instead of medication, they're using supplements, and I think there's a time and a place for supplements. Sure, it can be helpful, what you take when you take it, all of that. But at the end of the day, if you if there's a real problem for you, you need to you need to address the the underlying root causes, right. And, you know, most people just either they don't have the proper support, or they just don't know where to start with, with how to actually do that. And that's, and that's why we're so successful at what we do is because that's what we we support people through,
David Sandstrom 12:14
you know, something you mentioned is that we get afraid that oh, man, this nice dress is going to be all messed up. And we kind of experience a fear. But I think it can come from other areas as well, just general fear in our lives. And this is a faith based show and I work versus coming to mind, it's proverbs 3:24. When you lie down, you will not be afraid. When you lie down, your sleep will be sweet. So there's a connection there biblically speaking from fear, and the ability to get a sound good night's rest. And I think for a lot of people, that's an issue if you if you are struggling with fear and anxiety, usually insomnia comes along with that. It's, it goes hand in hand. Very good.
Devin Burke 12:55
Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that what a what a beautiful proverb. And that's there's so much that's so true. That's the biggest thing that we help people overcome and understand. Because, you know, when you're in a state of fear, you are in a state of stress. And, and until you get out of stress, you know, the body doesn't rest. So fear is the the number one emotion that you know, we need to learn to work with and work through and allow to be there. And most of us don't have the proper tools or support to to understand where to even begin with that. Which is why the practice of acceptance embodied acceptance is one of the most transformational tools for sleep.
David Sandstrom 13:38
So that's a little bit more about that. What does that mean?
Devin Burke 13:41
Yeah, so So most most of us most of the time are in a state of resistance to we can just say what is. And so what we teach at our academy, and through our coaching is helping people learn how to accept things, even when they don't like them. And this could be uncomfortable sensations in the body. This could be events that happened that happened the way that they people didn't want them to happen. So there's one first, it starts with intellectualizing acceptance, but then you actually can start to what we call embody. And when you embody it, that's when your body actually comes into homeostasis, or resonance with its natural rhythm. And from that place your body sleeps. And so it does take practice and it will because we're so conditioned to be quite in the opposite all the time of what life's giving us. It's it's so a lot it doesn't seem to make sense of, Well, how I don't understand like, well, how if I'm accepting this, you know, people have a lot of confusion around it, but once it clicks, and you really We start to embody, you know, acceptance. Ah, it life gets lighter, your sleep gets better. It's just it's like magic. But it's, it has to be learned. And it's a practice. And it's not always an easy one. Because, again, most of us are trained in the opposite of acceptence where
David Sandstrom 15:20
Are you saying that acceptance means we're going to accept the idea that our to do list is never going to be 100% Complete? Or there's something that's imperfect that we'd like to see improve? That hasn't happened yet? Is that what you're talking about?
Devin Burke 15:33
Yeah, so I think there's a distinction between acceptance and resignation, I think a lot of people get confused. So you can accept something and still do something about it. But yes, like what you just mentioned, David would be perfect examples of just hey, you know, focusing on what's in your control or out of your control and knowing, you know, what actually is in your control. So, so a lot of the underlying patterns that we see that create insomnia are people that are very controlling, that are perfectionists perfectionist, people that really care a lot, almost too much about about and so there's certain patterns, thought patterns, beliefs, that tend to usually people that are very intellectual experience a lot of insomnia. You know, it's treating it like a problem or putting it on a pedestal, there's all these thought patterns that then create this underlying pressure that then keeps the body from again, doing what it knows how to do, which is sleep, the body knows how to sleep.
David Sandstrom 16:34
That's an excellent point. And I wanted to bring it up again, I'm glad you did is that our bodies know how to sleep, right? And they know how to wake up when it's time. And I quick story, I used to wear glasses, I'm 59 years old. And when I was fourty years old, my vision started to get weaker and never wore glasses up to that point. But then I had to go get some some distant glasses. I had to wear glasses for my distance vision. And everybody you know, the older guys at my profession said, oh, yeah, happens everybody around 40 years old. Well, I wore my glasses for a couple years, I had 20-70 distant vision. And then I came across a method called the Bates method for vision improvement. And I bought an audio course. And I did that program. And I threw away my glasses. I'm 59 years old, and I still have 202-0 vision or better. Don't wear glasses anymore. And you know, the ophthalmologist will tell you Well, yeah, when you get older, your cornea gets harder. And it's harder for your your eyes to focus on things so that that's why you need glasses, you need my services for the rest of your life. Well, if that were true, I would not have been able to throw away my glasses for the last almost two decades. And so it reminds me a lot of people say Oh, so it's exercises for the eyes? Well, no, it's not is it actually the exact opposite. It's more like yoga for the eyes. And you stop trying, you stop the striving, you stop the squinting in the staring and you just let your eyes do what they know how to do is connect with your brain. And your vision improves. It's, it's amazing. And I was reminded of that when you said, yeah, just let your body do what it already knows how to do it. That's exactly right. As a naturopath, we want to lean on that God given wisdom of the body, to let it do what it already knows how to do our jobs as practitioners is to just get the obstacles out of the way.
Devin Burke 18:22
That's it, you know, I mean, I couldn't agree with you more. And it's, it's really that simple. And the you know, I call it innate intelligence or, you know, you can call it God or, you know, there's a lot of names for it. But it's like, we just get in the way. And so the more we can get out of the way. It's like you don't have to think about your heart beating, you don't have to think about your lungs breathing that happens, you know, how is it happening? That's beyond our understanding. So it's so it's like, it's the same thing with sleep. And soon as people get that, and I mean, they really get it. All of a sudden, even after 30 years of trying all the things, the therapies, the functional medicine, all the things. All of a sudden they start to sleep, and they think it's a miracle. And it's not it's not a miracle. It's just, I mean, yeah, it is a miracle because our bodies are miracle, it's kind of a miracle. But it's not the, you know, a miracle in the way that I think that most people are thinking about it as a miracle. It's, it's the natural miracle
David Sandstrom 19:27
So. So could you share some of the techniques that you teach people you mentioned starting earlier in the day, not just thinking about sleep when it's bedtime, but thinking about preparing for your night's sleep throughout the day? What are some of the things you share with your clients?
David Sandstrom 19:40
Yeah, one of the big things that is so simple to do, but what's simple to do sometimes it's challenging for people to actually execute on is actually not have your schedule back to back. We work with a lot of high performing entrepreneurs, business owners, also moms, grandmas. But a lot of times people that have these hectic schedules, they don't allow us Ace in their day. And the reason why that creates an issue is because the body builds up tension and pressure. Or you can, we can call it stress. And if you're not discharging that throughout the day, you take that with you right into your night. And we call that taking the day into the night. So we we teach people to take micro breaks throughout the day to discharge some of that tension and pressure that builds up. And it's not always bad stress, it could be you're really focused on a project that you love, and you're an architect and you're designing a home. And it's like, super exciting. There's still an energetic aspect of contraction that needs to be released after a period of of intense focus. And when you do that, we call it releasing the pressure valve throughout the day, there's not so much pressure to release when you're in bed.
David Sandstrom 20:46
Oh, that makes total sense to me.
Devin Burke 20:49
Yeah, it's real simple. And when people get that, and they actually implement it, it improves their sleep. And not just for some people, like all people.
David Sandstrom 21:01
Yeah, well, now that brings up the concept of the aura ring, I know you were you were the aura ring. And it gives you a snapshot or a picture, so to speak, so to speak of your stress levels throughout the day and how you're handling stress. Let's talk about the ordering a little bit.
Devin Burke 21:17
Yeah, I mean, it's an amazing device. What it does is it just just like you'd go and get a blood test, and you say, Oh, you have high cholesterol, go on this diet or take this medication or you know, it gives you information. And then what you do with that information is up to you. But what the aura ring does is it measures some really important metrics that help people understand their bodies. And the more you can understand the body, the more you can take action to improve. And so heart rate, heart rate variability, that's a measure of stress. It measures sleep stages, body temperature, it measures sleep efficiency, time in bed, sleep latency, how fast you fall asleep, it has all these things that have measures and essentially it just gave, it's gathering this data, so that you can see when you start to implement some of the simple strategies that we teach are that you are hearing right now, you can see the impact that actually makes and seeing then makes it easier to continue to execute on. And that's really the value of it. Because people can see the data and like, oh, wow, I practice this box breathing technique, or I took, you know, micro breaks throughout the day. And they actually see what that created for them at night. Or I cut out alcohol or eating, you know, sugary foods too close to bedtime. Oh, wow, look, I slept better. And they only need powerful motivator. It is extremely powerful. And it and another reason why the Auroa Ring is amazing. And we love it is because oftentimes people very oftentimes people underestimate the amount of sleep that they're actually getting. And the aura ring, because you're coming in and out of consciousness. A lot of people are like, oh, you know, I feel like I'm only getting two hours asleep. And then after you put the aura ring on, they see okay, well, I actually getting four hours of sleep maybe four and a half hours. That's a big difference. Yeah. So so it kind of brings to light it makes the unconscious conscious. And whenever you make the unconscious conscious, beautiful things happen, because now you have an opportunity to to really work with something.
David Sandstrom 23:21
Yeah, yeah. And that information can give you so much insight. As you mentioned food. I mean, it may be it's a troublesome food that you've been eating for dinner, or maybe later in the evening that is causing your problem. And you could see well what I eat that I have the data to support it up. It's not just how refreshed it I feel in the morning, I have some objective data that says yeah, my sleep was compromised. So man that can be so useful. Sometimes, identifying food sensitivities can be difficult. Even with with bloodwork and expensive testing, you sometimes don't really know what's going on, but that would be a really good way to monitor I, I'm excited about getting one of those things, I'm gonna have to order one.
Devin Burke 24:03
Yeah, it's worth the investment. And I have no financial interest in the company. I wish I did. Because I've probably sold hundreds of 1000s of dollars worth of these devices, but it's all good, I'm happy that exists. And it because it helps to helps us help people. So yeah, it's it's, you know, it's powerful. When you have information, you can then take action on that information, especially if you have somebody that's knowledgeable that can guide you through that. You know, if you don't know what to do with the information that can backfire, and it can actually harm your sleep. Because we get people all the time that get the Aura Ring, and then they're trying to do it on they don't understand what to do or how to do it. And then it's creating more just telling them every night they're sleeping like crap. And they're trying all these things they read on the internet, and they're still sleeping terrible. And it reinforces this belief that they're broken and then so you know, do be careful about you know devices. If you're going to track something, make sure you get the proper support like you don't try to read your own blog. work unless you're, you know, a naturopathic doctor like David right, or you know what I mean, like you went to school to understand how to do that. So same thing here with with with some sleep data, it's something that you, you know, leave it to the experts to help guide you through it.
David Sandstrom 25:16
Excellent advice. So you mentioned, people that have high stress jobs, creating some more whitespace in the calendar. That's one of the good techniques for a better night's rest. What's, what's some of the other low hanging fruit that you can recommend?
Devin Burke 25:30
Oh, it's so simple, you know, whatever you can get outside first thing in the morning, get light on your skin, that's going to help with your circadian clock. And it's, you know, we can get into the sort of the hormonal cascade of why that happens and all that, but essentially, just when you wake up, get outside, and if you can, as a bonus, get your feet on the ground, you know, the Schumann Resonance, this frequency that the Earth has, that'll help keep your circadian clock synced, if you could watch the sunset, and sunrise, that would be tremendous for your circadian clock, as well as going to bed at the same time and waking up at the same time. Real simple, easy to do. Hydration, we lose about a liter of water throughout the night through respiration and sweat. So make sure that you drink, you know a liter of water, at least, you know, within the first hour or two upon waking versus going right into your coffee, which is a diuretic, which is you know, acidic. You know, save that for an hour or two after after your body's already hydrated, your cortisol levels are starting to drop, that's when you have that nice cup of coffee not not first thing in the morning. So I mean, start how you start your morning also dictates sort of how the rest of the day goes. So you know, bookending your day, you know is really important. And starting off with some from a place of peace and power versus from from a place of chaos. And stress really does a huge it makes a huge difference with again, how much you have to discharge at the end of the day, Nor for your body to then relax enough for sleep to come.
David Sandstrom 27:11
Very good. That's a lot of great information there. So you mentioned grounding with the earth. I'm a firm believer in that myself and I have some earthing sheets. Are you familiar with those?
Devin Burke 27:22
I'm very familiar with earthing sheets and I David I just got myself a pair of earthing sandals, which Yeah, which are pretty cool. So you can walk around and you know, they look a little funky, they kind of look like Jesus sandals. That, you know, this is a faith based channel. So, you know, who wouldn't want to put on some Jesus and
David Sandstrom 27:40
more Christ, like just leave just $19.95
Devin Burke 27:44
That's it, that's it. But yeah, I'm a big believer, you know, I think that the more that we the further we get from nature, the more issues we have. So anything that you can bring you back to natural rhythms is gonna help with your with your your health and your sleep. So, you know, grounding, grounding, Mat grounding sheets, grounding sandals. You know, there's some very interesting technology coming out that can block certain types of, you know, EMFs electromagnetic frequencies that can sort of impact hypersensitive people. But at the end of the day, the Easy, easy thing to do is just get your feet on the ground. You know, that's pretty easy.
David Sandstrom 28:27
So I'm assuming you shut your phone off at night or put it in another room.
Devin Burke 28:31
Yeah, I turned it off. So I turned it off. And yeah, it's it's pretty, pretty simple to do. I mean, people have a hard time I get a lot of pushback on that from people well, what if my kids call or you know, you know, mother's sick or something like that, and I understand that so you know, it might not be appropriate time for everyone to do that. But if you can, that makes a difference. You're not getting this this magnetic frequency blaring at your on your on your body for the hopefully eight hours that you're in bed.
David Sandstrom 29:05
You know, another thing I do is I have we have Wi Fi in the house, which is not the healthiest thing in the world. But you know, today's day and age you know, we use it we use it a lot throughout the day. So I've kind of conceded that one little unhealthy habit is to have some Wi Fi but I have it on a timer and it goes off at 10pm and it doesn't come back on till six in the morning. Unless I get up earlier I turn it on but at least when I'm sleeping, the Wi Fi is off.
Devin Burke 29:29
Me too. It's so simple and you can get one on Amazon for like you know 510 bucks, a little cheap timer. Yeah, it's so easy. It's like and you don't that little that that that makes a difference. I mean you don't have to like sleep in a mosquito net EMF blocker, you know or paint your walls I do have some people I know that that go to that extent. And you know you get to that but you know if you don't want to do that just start with the simple stuff like like you said, the grounding sheets or the timer for the for the Wi Fi
David Sandstrom 29:59
You know, we're all individuals, and everyone's going to react differently to these these different blocking factors. But a quick story I used to live in West Palm Beach. And I think it was something like 2007, we had three hurricanes back to back. And two of those hurricanes, the eye went over right or right over my house. And it was late September, and there was a followed up by a cold front. So when everyone lost power, and then there was a cold front, so we opened our windows. And you know, for Florida, a cold was, you know, 65 degrees. But everyone that I talked to said, Man, that three days that we were without power, I've never slept so good. That was crazy. How nice. I slept that that week. And I think it has a lot to do with the fresh air and the lack of electromagnetic frequencies in the room.
David Sandstrom 30:49
That's a great story. And, you know, to kind of piggyback on that story, there's actually a they took, it was it was a research they took, I think it was about 20 insomniacs, they took them out into nature, sleeping in a tent for a couple of days. And I forget the exact number, but it was it was close to it was over 90% of them. They slept, and they slept well. Just being outside. Yeah, sleeping in a tent where you think, oh, you know, I'm not going to sleep? Well, you know, I'm sleeping on a mat. And you know, I don't have my mattress and my air conditioner and whatever. It's, it really is. I mean, there's something to that. There's absolutely something just to you know, so how do you how do you bring that back into your, your everyday life is is it can be a challenge, for sure.
David Sandstrom 31:40
It can be Yeah. And that's why I love the earthing products, I have the sheet I have the pillowcase, I have the mat that I can put under my office desk. And it's a way to fight back. You know, it's not perfect, but man, it is very useful. I'm a huge fan of those earthlings products. It's just, I sleep better. I wake up more alert on all the things we're talking about, you know, it's just it improves your quality of life at almost all levels, a better night's sleep.
Devin Burke 32:07
Yeah, absolutely. And the thing, the thing that gets a little tricky for people David is, most people don't, aren't sleeping well, and they don't know it. And they then it doesn't become they don't really realize how bad they feel until you start to feel good. So it becomes this subjective thing where people like, Oh, I feel pretty good, I sleep pretty good. But then when you really start to analyze it, even for people that don't have like, sleep issues, and you see, well, you're not getting enough deep sleep or REM sleep, there's there's so much more you you could possible, if you improve the quality of that sleep, you would just feel even that much more better. Like you don't realize that right now you might be feeling you know, you're at 75%, you could be at like 95%.
David Sandstrom 32:50
And you might have been at that 75% for so long that it feels normal.
Devin Burke 32:54
That Exactly, exactly. And that's, that's That's unfortunate.
David Sandstrom 32:58
Yeah, it is. So do you have any recommendations for falling asleep faster, sometimes people say well, I'm sleeping, okay. But it takes me a long time to get to sleep, any recommendations there.
Devin Burke 33:11
We call it a bed buffer. And what that means is, again, people take their days into their nights. So having we practice a bed buffer, and that's part of our three to one sleep. So three hours before bed, you stop eating, because that gets in the way of deep sleep, which is what we get most of in the first quarter the night, two hours before you want to be asleep, you stop working. And then one hour before you want to go to you want to be asleep, you implement a bedtime routine. And this is sleep hygiene. So your habits and rituals around sleep. So that could look like taking a hot shower to drop your body temperature. Because our core body temperature needs to drop between two to three respire nights and do sleep that look like reading a book. I usually like to read spiritual books. Right now I'm reading this fantastic book about a man who was silent for 17 years and walked for 22 years and his diary. Just fascinating book. Yeah, really cool, called Planet Walker. So anyway, a book that's non stimulating a book that sort of can, it's that's relaxing, doing something that's going to get you into the parasympathetic nervous system response will help your body fall asleep faster. The thing that people need to understand is you can't rush sleep, and in trying to do so you will actually it'll take you longer. So you can't will or force or try to control your sleep, the more you try to do that. The longer it's going to take you to fall asleep and the worse you're going to sleep.
David Sandstrom 34:30
Right? It's going to work against you even though don't feel that way. That's what happens.
Devin Burke 34:34
Yeah, you can't it's like and it's like, ah, if I felt you know, that's if you find yourself and you're getting frustrated, or you're trying to like I need to be asleep by this time and you're getting like that's just going to you're going to continue to not sleep well. And it's going to take a long time. So just again, if you're having issues, practice acceptance, but do the things that I just mentioned, you know, three to one sleep, the bed buffer, those things make a huge difference as far as sleep latency.
David Sandstrom 34:58
You know Something else I want to mention to you mentioned, we use up a lot of water during during sleep because we're detoxifying and we're losing hydration every time we take a breath and exhale as well. So I like to drink a couple of eight ounce glasses of water. As soon as I wake up, I brush my teeth first. But then the first thing I'll do is get a couple glasses of water. And, you know, it sounds like a lot when people first start that habit. But man, once you do it, you can really miss it, if you don't get a chance to do that, because it's your body is craving hydration first thing in the morning.
Devin Burke 35:30
Yeah, and the quality of your water is really important I've experimented this with over the years. And you know, if people that if you're not drinking pure water, like good water, your it tastes bad in your body doesn't absorb it as much. Like I know, for me, when I drink really good water, I can drink way more of it because my body recognizes that this is clean, good natural spring water, you know, out of glass bottle, or, you know, we have a Berkey filter here, because the water here in Florida isn't very good. You know, filters out the fluoride and all the heavy metals and things like that. But you know, the quality of water, it'll taste better, and your body will be able to handle more of it. If you if you're getting high quality water.
David Sandstrom 36:12
Yeah, absolutely. And spring water is the best.
Devin Burke 36:16
Yeah, I agree. Yep. And if you can, if you're going to buy it, buy the glass in glass bottles, I love mountain valleys, a great company and Aqupana is another one of those waters, that water you can drink goes down and the body knows it's good stuff.
David Sandstrom 36:30
Mountain Valley is the most delicious water I've ever tasted. It's incredible.
Devin Burke 36:35
It is it is it really is. I don't know about you if you've had that experience, but I can drink more water when I'm drinking that water versus like, yeah, you know, Dasani or some other? Like, I don't know what it is, it's just my body can drink more of that stuff?
David Sandstrom 36:50
Absolutely. Your body knows, you know, it just knows is kind of like, you know, a dog can sense fear on you. It's like your body can sense the energetic vibration from what you're putting in your mouth. It does. And you can feel it.
Devin Burke 37:04
I can, I know I can. And I think sometimes a lot of a lot of times, maybe we're hyperstimulated, or we're not as in tune to our bodies. Sometimes I found that some people don't eat aren't even connected to their body at all. They're just in their head, right? Like all the time. And so the more you can connect it to your body, create body awareness and sort of create a little bit more hyper awareness to your physical body, I think you can start to really understand how some of the things we're sharing that might sound a little woowoo actually make perfect sense.
David Sandstrom 37:36
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, you know, it's my contention. I haven't said this yet on this episode. But it's my contention that we maximize our health potential when we align our lives more fully, with God's natural design for spirit, mind and body. And that falls right into what you're saying, We have to get into it. Our bodies are always talking to us. They tell us when we're thirsty, they tell us when we're tired. They tell us when we're itchy, sweaty, you name it. There's there's a lot of things that our bodies a lot of ways the body will communicate with us if we just pay attention.
Devin Burke 38:08
Yeah, what do you why do you think so many people don't pay attention? What do you think? You know, what's your thoughts on that? David?
David Sandstrom 38:14
I think I think what Stephen Covey would call the tyranny of the urgent, you know, we're so busy putting out fires, and trying to accomplish things during the day, that we've we've lost the art of just being still and just turning inward. You know, I don't think we were ever I firmly believe this, we were never created to carry the stress of the world in our pocket, like we do with ourselves said, wow, you know, we are constantly being bombarded with, you know, the earthquake, the shooting, you name it, the wars. You know, centuries ago, people never had to deal with that burden. But we do. And I think it's very important that we make a conscious effort to disconnect once in a while, not that we don't care about those people and what's going on, I think there's a time and a place to pray for those people and do what we can. But there's also a time and a place to let it go. And understand that I have limits to what I can do. And worrying about this 24/7 is not doing anybody any good.
Devin Burke 39:17
Well said, We so we call we have a term for what you just said at our academy. And we call it controlling the inputs. So oftentimes people don't are not taking responsibility for the inputs, the inputs of what's going into their brain coming from the things that's in their pocket in their TV. And if you're not consciously controlling that it's controlling you. And that's dangerous, because you're going to be stressed, you're going to be in fear, you're going to be confused, and you're going to be easily manipulated. To be honest. A lot of times people are and they're not even aware of it, and so disconnecting and I think getting to stillness is one of the most powerful things, just, you know, in general for health, but also for sleep and for just being connected. So there's, you know, it's it's a, it's so needed to stillness is so yeah.
David Sandstrom 40:14
Well, you know, as you know, I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. And Jesus modeled that for us. There were times we see in the Gospel account that Jesus was ministering to the big crowds and the the whole town showed up and he was talking healing people and very busy. And then there were other times where he spent the time alone with the disciples, the small group setting. And then there were plenty of times where the Bible records that Jesus pulled away in the heat that nobody knew where he was. And he was spending some time in prayer and fasting. That's a good model for us to follow. We don't want to be isolated from the world, we don't want to be isolated from friendships and relationships. that's those are very important health building components. But at the same time, we've got to make sure we've got some alone time we've got some downtime, because that's just as important as well, we got it we need to balance,
Devin Burke 41:01
man, that is, that is amazing. Yeah, it's interesting, like studying the lives of saints, one of the things I like to study is, you know, there's a couple things in common is what you just said, there's a lot of nature time, there's a lot of silent time. There's also teachers, right? So nature, silence, and teachers, and then there's community. And, you know, it's like, you study the lives of saints, they tell you a lot about, you know, not just spiritual wisdom, but wisdom that our bodies can thrive with all those things. Keep a healthy mind, healthy body healthy spirit. And it's just, it's really, it's right there. For us. It's just a matter of us making the decision to, to honor it, and fun to follow it. And it's not easy in the world we live in because, you know, it's, it's, there's a lot of noise. And, and it's so it really does take a I think, a disciplined I don't wanna say discipline, I would say deliberate, deliberate, deliberate, dedicated. Yeah, yeah. And to, to really to to honor those things. And, and, and what I know for a fact when I, when I do those follow those those steps, man, do I sleep better? Do I feel better? Am I I'm just better all around. And? And that's, you know, it's it's not? It's not complicated?
David Sandstrom 42:22
Yeah. I couldn't agree more. You just, you're, you're nailing it. Absolutely. So if there were one thing you want people to remember from this conversation, Devin, what would it be?
Devin Burke 42:33
It would be to remember that sleep is a natural biological process that happens when you allow it that and so if you're listening to this, and you're having sleep issues, chances are you've been trying to supplements and you've been trying to the maybe even meditation and all these other things, you know, just, if you can just stop trying, and just start trusting, then you're going to sleep better. And, you know, sometimes that's that's hard to do by yourself. So get the support. If you're if you're really struggling, and you're listening to
David Sandstrom 43:03
this. And you have a book, right? It's called the sleep advantage.
Devin Burke 43:07
Yes, sleep advantage is a great place to start. And it's really it's, you know, a simple guide to understanding what to do what not to do to improve your quantity and quality of sleep. It's not loaded with science, just enough science to keep you motivated to take action on the step by step that I share in
David Sandstrom 43:28
the book. And what's the best way for somebody to pick one up?
Devin Burke 43:31
So it's on it's available on Amazon? And for those of you that don't like to read a recorded on Audible for you.
David Sandstrom 43:36
Excellent. Is it as you did the recording?
Devin Burke 43:41
I did. And I'm a much more of a speaker than I am a writer. And it's I think the audio version is way, way better. But that's just I'm a bits of, you know, bias here. So
David Sandstrom 43:52
I did I did my audio is well, a Christians guide to Holistic Health, and I've sold far more audible versions than paperbacks.
Devin Burke 44:00
Yeah, I think people enjoy listening. And especially, you know, the person that wrote it put the heart and soul into getting that information into people's hands. Yeah, it's, you know, that comes through, I think, in the presentation.
David Sandstrom 44:13
So one last thing is I know that you do some free consults for people. Let's just mention that for if you would,
Devin Burke 44:18
yeah. So anyone that's listening to this that has chronic insomnia, that you feel like you've tried everything, and you're still not sleeping, we'd be happy to, to offer you a console and see if our approach might be the right approach for you. It might it might be it might not be, but we were happy to explore and see if it is excellent. And what's the best way to get ahold of you see, sleep science academy.com. And there'll be links to all different types of things, quizzes, master classes, and the free concert offer there as well.
David Sandstrom 44:47
And where do you spend your time on social media?
Devin Burke 44:50
So Devin Burke wellness, on all the social channels in so so we just really started to ramp up the social channels and not much of a social media. You guy but But lately, I've been putting out a lot of content on YouTube. So Sleep Science Aademy on YouTube, that Deborah Burke, wellness, you'll,
David Sandstrom 45:08
you'll find me there. Excellent. All right, Devin, is there anything else you'd like to share before we wrap things up?
Devin Burke 45:14
I appreciate you having me on the show. And I I truly hope that people don't just listen to this information, but they take action on it so it can change their health in their life.
David Sandstrom 45:23
Excellent. Well, thank you for your time, Devuin. I appreciate it.
Devin Burke 45:27
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me, David.
David Sandstrom 45:30
For more, go to the show notes page at davidsandstrom.com/89. There you can find it audio as well as a video version of the podcast. I always put links to all the resources that we mentioned, a full transcript with timestamps and a content upgrade of some sort to help you go deeper with that subject. Thanks for listening. I'll talk with you next week. Be blessed
