Christian Healthy Lifestyle 

Age gracefully | Live abundantly | Thoroughly equipped for every good work

by David Sandstrom 

March 8, 2023

Talk Therapy doesn't work! Learn how to conquer mental health challenges with Licensed Social Worker and Emotional Wellness Coach Rachelle McCloud.

Download this Free PDF on How to identify and eliminate unhealthy thinking patterns. Just fill out this form and you'll get instant access to the download and be subscribed to my Health Tips Newsletter.

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Show Notes


Today's Guests...

  • Emotional Wellness Coach Rachelle, McCloud

Topics Discussed...w / Time Stamps

  • 14:38 The Five Survival Responses: fight, flight, freeze, faint, fawn
  • 24:10 (EFT) Emotional Freedom Technique
  • 33:00 Thought Field Therapy
  • 34:07 Energy Medicine
  • 35:59 (EMDR) Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing
  • 54:24 Low-hanging fruit


Scroll through the text below to read the full transcript.

Rachelle McCloud 0:00
But really what brought me because I quit the field, I was a talk therapist. I didn't like the results I was getting. I was like, what we're going to talk about this forever. No. And I was mad. I can't believe I have a degree in this. So I kind of stormed off and stomped off. So, you know,

David Sandstrom 0:16
three years later, Your march to your own drum, love it.

Rachelle McCloud 0:19
It's you. Crying is one of the best interventions, mental health interventions and it helps the brain complete its work. If more of us could cry freely, we would really heal but you don't want to have to cry yourself through a disorder.

David Sandstrom 0:33
Welcome to the Natural Health Matters podcast where it's all about maximizing your health potential, so that you can look and feel your best at any age. I'm your host, David Sandstrom, Naturopathic Doctor, and biblical Health Coach. And this is episode number 108. Today, we have in the show, Rachel McLeod. Rachel is a licensed social worker and an Emotional Wellness coach. She specializes in helping people not just cope, but heal from anxiety, depression, and stress. Rachelle, Welcome to Natural Health Matters.

Rachelle McCloud 1:06
Thank you, thank you for having me.

David Sandstrom 1:08
It's a pleasure to have you on I think you're gonna have a great message for the audience here. And I really love what you're doing and that you help people not just manage their anxiety and depression, but actually heal from it and live a more whole life as a result. I love the message. So Rachelle, as an introduction, why don't you tell the listening audience in natural nation, what it is that you do now just a 35,000 foot view so we can get an idea for who you are what you do?

Rachelle McCloud 1:35
Yeah, I help people do the brain work for resolving symptoms of anxiety, depression and traumatic stress. And I actually help them make those symptoms stop and go away and really eliminate them from their life. Those symptoms show us exactly where the brain is not able to complete its own natural symptom resolution process. And, and so I use specific interventions that work with the survival system, part of the brain, instead of the prefrontal cortex part of the brain, which is what we do in talk therapy with talking and reasoning and understanding, I don't do any of that stuff. I really work with the part of the brain that will stop the healing process or open the healing process up. It's very simple. And it's very different. And I help people use interventions, like Emotional Freedom Techniques, thought field therapy, energy medicine, and EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing, to manually operate that switch from a survival state back into a regulated symptom processing state. And so I help people, finally I help people's brain do the brain work that the brain has always wanting to be doing, but wasn't able to complete. And so as we can help the brain finally complete those that work, the symptoms, stop and resolve. And so that's really what I help people do. They come in, they're not sleeping, they're anxious, they've got racing thoughts, they're having panic attacks, they're had they have angry outbursts, there, you know, anywhere these things are showing up, I really get in there with them figure out what's going on, like, what is what has not been processed here. And sometimes that's childhood memories. Sometimes that's a limiting belief. Sometimes it's conflict. It's like, I believe this, but I need to do this. And I don't know how to make that work. The brain says, you know, right, like, I have all these two things that don't work together. And so I really help them wherever they're at, get that information through that process, and the brain takes over it from there. And those symptoms resolve within minutes.

David Sandstrom 3:34
Yeah, that's, that's fantastic. You know, another question I'd like to ask as an introduction is, is there an was there an event in your life that led you into this work? A lot of times that's the case with a with a healthcare practitioner? Is that the case with you?

Rachelle McCloud 3:49
You know,there wasn't really an event. I think myself like others, I think I just, I really had an unconscious drive to heal and resolve that was not conscious to me. I came from a family of a lot of trauma, and they really hid that from me, they did not want me affected by it. But I was very affected by it. And I had a lot of things that didn't work in my inner world, too. And so I wasn't able to really create the emotional and mental wellness that I needed to create. So I was a high performer. I did excellent in school. I was a division one athlete, I was a top athlete. And

David Sandstrom 4:29
What sports did you play?

Rachelle McCloud 4:30
I played volleyball.

David Sandstrom 4:32
Oh, that's so cool. I one of my daughters is really getting into volleyball. Yeah.

Rachelle McCloud 4:35
And so I was doing really great. So nobody really understood that I was dealing with some pretty intense mental health symptoms and mental health disorders. And so but when I had my third child, I had three children under three it was I could not outperform that. And really, my mental health issues really just started showing up and I was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder, and which would only be the tip of the iceburg I've really had complex childhood trauma and so and generational trauma and so, but really what brought me because I quit the field, I was a talk therapist, I didn't like the results I was getting, I was like, what we're going to talk about this forever. No. And I was mad, I can't believe I have a degree in this. So I kind of stormed off and stopped off. So but you know, three years later

David Sandstrom 5:24
Good for you. You march to your own drum, love it.

Rachelle McCloud 5:25
I do. Three years later, I had my my most intense non non like, I looking back, I had other mental health crises, but I cried my way through them, I would just have these big six week crying spells, which I had no idea that crying is one of the best interventions, mental health interventions, and it helps the brain complete its work. If more of us could cry freely, we would really heal but you don't want to have to cry yourself through a disorder. Right. And so at this time, I just I could not I just, I just was I just had a crisis. And somebody handed me a training DVD set for Emotional Freedom Techniques, which was not talk therapy. And it's this weird tapping thing. So I was like, open to it. Because I'm not doing that tap that talk therapy, jazz, you will not see me with them. Because I'm mad at them. I'm no longer mad at them. But and I appreciate them. But at that time, I was not open. And so I was having racing thoughts in the middle of the night, or right before bedtime, and I couldn't get to sleep and something said try that weird thing that you just learned. And so I got it out again. And I was tapping on the points and that they were asking me to tap on. And I started yawning. And so I was like, Okay, let me do it out again. And so I tap through the points again, I fell asleep. I didn't even choose to fall asleep. I just was out. And I woke up the next morning and I was like, What can I try this on? What else can I use this for? And I just went off any symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder, I would just use this this intervention and heal. I really thought it was the intervention. That was the big powerful thing. And at that time, I was healing. So I really didn't need any deeper understanding. But after I've trained in more interventions, I was like, hold up, why do all of these interventions work? And then after understanding interpersonal neurobiology and how and brain function, I really realized that this it's the brain that's doing this brains are fully capable of resolving symptoms. And so that's really where I got rid of everything, all the talk therapy, all of anything that was coming up that was outside of helping brains heal. And I'm sorry, excuse me.

David Sandstrom 7:37
That's all right. I just wanted to point out a couple of things. And that was, I have two practitioners that I've had on the show. One was Katie naal. In episode number 28. She does Emotional Freedom Technique. That's a great episode, if you want to check that out. And also, April Ebeling, I had on not too long ago in Episode 92. She has a method called singalong switch, which is based in emotional freedom technique as well. It's a very useful way to get over emotional issues. And I recommend listeners go check those two episodes out. So But anyway, I interrupted you. Go ahead.

Rachelle McCloud 8:12
No, I think that's wonderful. Because that's exactly my point is that we can really help the brain do its healing work with these Mind Body interventions, because that survival system is basically standing there, trying to figure out if things are dangerous or safe. And when the body's sending all this information up to the front of the brain, for processing and information. If that stuff registers as pain, the survival system thinks we're in danger, and it will shut down the healing process. And so,

David Sandstrom 8:41
you know, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I really want to just kind of emphasize that point right there. And, you know, it's my contention that if you're, if you're a regular, listen to the show, you know, this, if you're a regular listener, you know this. But if you're new to the show, here, natural health matters, we maximize our health potential when we align our lives more fully with God's natural design for spirit, mind and body. And when we are doing that, when we are a peace spiritually at peace, mentally, emotionally, our bodies experienced that rest and digest with the parasympathetic dominance that we want from our autonomic nervous system. And that's when our bodies have the margin to spend time healing and detoxification and renewal. That's how we sleep better. And that's what we're that's what we're after it natural health matters. We want to we want to pursue peace and stimulate our sympathetic nervous system less in the parasympathetic nervous system more. So that's what you just mentioned, you went through kind of fast, but I just wanted to kind of emphasize that point. That's a really huge point.

Rachelle McCloud 9:42
Yeah, well, let me back this all the way up. Really, if we understand this from our body is the sensing instrument that we have. And so its whole job is to pick up this information outside of us and internally and send that information to the front of the brain where it's understood, incense is made of it and words start showing up. Where it's like it starts giving words to our experience and to this information that's coming through the body. And so the body's whole job is to grab it and deliver it. And so if like, if we were walking down a hallway, and we were bumping into something, or body would register that send it to the front of the brain, the brain would say, hey, there's something there. When we walk down here next time, we're going to make a new way of walking down here, and we're gonna avoid that. And so you would see a shift in our behaviors that occurs naturally, because there's this whole communication loop that's happening, it's very beautiful. It's how our mind body is created. Now, when there is when our body is sending the all this information up, that registers as pleasure or neutral, it's just zipping through this communication loop. And the survival system is back there, just sitting back letting it happen. All of a sudden, when the body is at the same time sending signals of pain, the pain neurons in our brain start firing and that signal survival system, we're in danger. And so all of a sudden, it will close down that communication loop. And so the body is like, but I need to send that information up. And it's trying to get that information surfaced, and up to the front of the brain. And the survival system will not let that information through. Because its whole job is to keep us away from pain, and to get us away from pain as fast as possible. And so when that information loop contains pain, it the body and mind start working against the communication process and completing the loop. And that is really where the symptoms come. Because if you imagine the body's like, no, I need to send this information up. But this information might be pain, it might be panic, it might be any emotional distress, any social distress. And if you imagine it sitting and pushing through this lid, it's just gonna get bigger and bear and cause more pressure and explode.

David Sandstrom 11:43
Rachel, I'd like to know, what are some of the physical symptoms that can have an emotional root? What could somebody experienced in their in their physical bodies?

Rachelle McCloud 11:52
Well, that's really what with this when, when that survival system is pressing down, and all these this information and energy is coming up this panic, all of a sudden, but it's coming from the body. So the heart is racing, right, and it's not stopping, it's getting worse, or the thoughts are looping. And they're circling and the stomach is like I have all these things to say about it. But the stomach, the body doesn't speak in words. So it's going to have sensations. So some people notice their legs getting heavier, their stomach getting heavier feeling like an elephant is on their chest, or tension in their shoulders, they start their shoulders rising. And this is all the body's communication of what's going on in the outside world that needs to make it up to the front of the brain. So it's from the front of the brains perspective, it's so valuable, because it's how we adjust how we create new ways of being and how we get rid of symptoms. But from the body's perspective, it needs to get that information to the front. And then from the survival system, it needs to stop that communication.

David Sandstrom 12:49
So let me summarize what I what I think I understand you're saying, correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is our bodies are wired in a certain way to protect us. We're wired for survival. And when we see a threatening event that we're that we interpret as a threatening event, maybe it's something that's fearful or, or whatever it is, our bodies just kind of automatically respond in such a way that we get spun up. And that's when we just kind of go headlong into this anxiety or stress response. And we feel powerless to do anything about it. But what you're saying is we're not powerless, we have plenty of techniques that we can use, is that correct?

Rachelle McCloud 13:27
Absolutely. And I really think that understanding that if we can get the survival system out of the way for this, the entire process runs really, really well. And we have, we really use the the native language of the survival system is the body. And so when we use the body, to send to make these corrections and adjustments and to send the signal to the survival system that we're safe, all of a sudden the healing happens, the symptoms resolve we feel more common our body, we have more logical reasoning, and our so we start making solutions. It's really a very simple process. We're doing this all the time with babies, when the babies cry, we go pick them up, we rock them, and we pat them on sshh, we use their body to send messages to the survival system that is safe. And then all of a sudden, the whole information loop completes, and baby stops crying, feels more calm, and really has learned a lot of things about the world. And we do that over and over and over again. We're actually wiring the brain to really complete that process. Yeah, and if we can stay with it, we have very healthy adults. We don't have these symptoms showing up. And we can really keep using that method for the rest of our lives.

David Sandstrom 14:37
Yeah. You talk a lot about the five survival responses. Can we go through those one at a time just briefly. The first one is fight. So what would that look like?

Rachelle McCloud 14:49
That that survival state that really looks like irritability, angry outbursts. That tension that standing that that being ready bracing for impact, but real We kind of want to lean in to it. It can be verbal, it can be physical it can be, we can be fighting mentally, it's not necessarily a one way fits all it Nick can look differently in many different people. We might be used to someone doing a fight response in one way. And somebody else is, you know, doing a fight response and entirely differently, but it's still really will be I'm fighting these symptoms, I'm fighting the situation I'm fighting.

David Sandstrom 15:25
So whatever. So somehow resisting the situation they don't, they're uncomfortable, and they're just resisting it Mike might come across as overly aggressive or overly assertive, but it might be internalized, and they're fighting in an internal way. Interesting. Yeah.

Rachelle McCloud 15:38
Like that inner criticism, that would also be a type of fighting.

David Sandstrom 15:42
Okay, very good. And then flight, what does that look like?

Rachelle McCloud 15:46
A flight looks like running from the situation that can be very subtle to something like distracting oneself. Social media going shopping? It can be I gotta get out here, people going for long drives? Would I need to hire on

David Sandstrom 16:02
Would addiction fall into that category? Say that, again? Would addiction fall into that category?

Rachelle McCloud 16:08
Gosh, I think those are the two that wouldn't I would hit that with that, that is such a multiple, multi tiered thing. I think addiction would fall into the fleeing but also addiction is interesting, because it's also a manual operation of the survival system as well. If because the Survival Systems listening for to the body at once you use a substance, you're sending messages to the body, that you're safe, that we can feel good. And yeah, the survival system will relax. And that really, really vital. So it's also just like manually operating a breathing or breathing. It's just finding a way it right because we have to breathe, we have to get our survival system to relax as well. It's vital to our survival. And so these drugs work, but they have all these awful side effects as well. And so it but yeah, I think it could be a survival a fight response. But I think it's even more basic than that.

David Sandstrom 17:02
Okay, and then freeze what does that look like? So I just want to go through these just so people can recognize Yeah, that kind of sounds like me or maybe it doesn't so just wanted to identify these freeze

Rachelle McCloud 17:14
freeze is is it's just like what it says you just really are frozen. This is where people feel paralyzed. They feel like they have words in their head they could see that they want to stay but they cannot get those words out of their body their their system their ability to talk is frozen. And um, gosh

David Sandstrom 17:33
We've seen somebody have a panic attack up trying to do a speech in a public environment and they freeze up and they just can't get the words out when you know everyone's seen that happen or maybe even you've had it happen to you I've had Yeah, or possibly maybe decision making having trouble making decisions.

Rachelle McCloud 17:51
Absolutely. That would be the difficulty making decisions is is definitely a freeze i gosh, I think that that has so much to do with the processing disorder the inability to process the information the body is sending. And so that's why we want to get that we want to use interventions right there to get the survival system to open up let that information through all of a sudden all that stuff clears and so and then people can make the decisions that they need to make very educated wise decisions we

David Sandstrom 18:19
want to get into the intervention so that's gonna be exciting. But number four is is faint.

Rachelle McCloud 18:25
Faint is Gosh, this is wonderful. I hope everyone is listening up to this one faint is really going to sleep many people feel like they are just they sleep a lot they nap a lot. You might your being brain might actually be shifting you into the survival state of faint and you are actually going to sleep faint can look like that. Faint can look like fainting. I don't think it often looks like fainting there I think there are varying degrees to this and more people are doing this faint mode than we realize.

David Sandstrom 18:59
Yeah, you know I saw a YouTube video I forget what I was looking for. It was some research but there was a guy who was searching for for I think it was his son or child was lost. And he was going along the bank of a river looking and he pulls back some shrubs in this a giant snake and a hole in this big thing and the guy immediately fainted and fell in the water and his buddies had to come and rescue him out of the water because he just immediately just like that right was doubt so yeah, it can happen

Rachelle McCloud 19:28
and that one you know very clearly didn't happen happens you know that faint just happened. But there are there are other degrees of it that are very interesting to watch as well. Exhaustion fatigue, also a faint mode.

David Sandstrom 19:39
Yeah, okay. Very good. And then finally fawn. What does that look like?

Rachelle McCloud 19:44
Fawn looks like your mouth is moving. This is one of the ways it looks. There's there's many things but you're working hard to appease the person that you're with. Whether you're just saying a bunch of appeasing things, your mouth is going and you're like why are you saying that on the inside stuff? Not saying that, but your mouth is saying yes, yes, or whatever is happening, and you actually cannot be your authentic self in that moment. So maybe you're agreeing to things that you really wouldn't agree to, if you're, if you weren't in a survival state, maybe you are, you're telling a lot of funny jokes, right, and you're just the life of the party, you actually could be in a survival state. And none of these things are wrong in and of themselves, if you are choosing this state, or if they're in agreement with you, but once you are doing the things that you do not want to be doing, and you cannot make them stop. That's really when you're in a fawn state. And there's lots of those things that are so unconscious, you actually think you don't know that you? You're actually under the Survival Systems operation and not choice and your authentic self?

David Sandstrom 20:47
Well, from what I know about making changes is the first step is recognizing that there's something wrong, there's something amiss, right. So if you want to make some positive changes in your life, you first got to say, okay, just because I've been doing this all my life doesn't mean that it's normal, right? Maybe that's the way I react to this person. But maybe, maybe it's not a positive reaction. So yeah, it's worth spending some time thinking about these things and saying, do I fit into one of these categories? And I'll bet one time realize, each one of us has fitted to one or more of these. So now, you said something interesting earlier that you were trained to do talk therapy with your education. But you found it didn't work. So could you talk to us a little bit about that, and know what you found what your experience was there?

Rachelle McCloud 21:30
Yeah, I wanted to do some healing in the world. You know, I really wanted some, I don't want to just say I really wanted quick, fast results. But really, that's really what I wanted. I wanted people I wanted to interact with people in a way that I could see a very quick before and after their lives were improved. They walked away with some tangible results. I didn't go into this field, knowing that about myself as clearly as I do now. And when I started having sessions with people, and talk therapy sessions, using those skills, I did not see any measurable change. And a lot of time, they would be frustrated two weeks later, weeks later, and they're like, Yeah, but what do I do? Yeah, but I'm still having panic attacks, are you going to help me with this? I'm trying this is what they said that would happen at school. You know, this is, so I'm using these things. And so what I, once I shifted with these message methods, you know, in the very first session, were resolving symptoms, we're walking the brain through its natural healing process, with a symptom. And so they can feel the tangible result in their body, they can feel the relaxation, they can feel they're thinking center turning on. And I'm watching for their thinking, I want to see the shift between the survival system, and I want to see things move into the front of the brain. And we get to watch that over and over and over again, within a minute within two minutes of timeframe. And so it this one, this way of doing things is much, gosh, people are ending insomnia in a week in a month. They're ending panic attacks, they're reducing their alcohol or substance use within weeks, as opposed to because they now know how to work with their survival system in the way that works more effectively and quickly and also heals them. And I get to be on the same team with them. Now, those symptoms have to go yes, absolutely

David Sandstrom 23:25
Well, you know, I'm trained as a naturopath and in naturopathy, we try to come alongside the body's natural processes and encourage that, that God given innate wisdom of the body to heal itself, as opposed to opposing the symptom with some type of a pharmaceutical. So it sounds to me like your approach to mental health is very much the same way. You're embracing our design, you're embracing the way the brain is wired, and you're embracing the the human aspect to all this. And you're saying, Yeah, okay, we're gonna cooperate with that design, but we're gonna, we're gonna give you or I'm gonna give you a more effective way to manage that. So I'd love to get into some of the some of the therapies that you use today. So you mentioned EFT, Emotional Freedom Technique. For those that haven't listened to those back episodes. Just give us a brief rundown on what EFT is.

Rachelle McCloud 24:17
Yeah, EFT is an intervention that uses the meridians, the body's meridian system. So it's, it's one of the energy communication pathways the body is already using for many, many functions, and so we have people tap on those points and we can tap on them ourself. This is an intervention that can be self applied, which is really powerful. That means you can use it anywhere anytime. And you tap three to five times on each of the points. I haven't counted the points exactly, but it seems like there's about 14 points. And so why and you can really use it to go after specific symptoms like to target things, not just to sit back and just try to make yourself generally feel better, which you can also use it for that. But you can also say, hey, these panic attacks right here. And you can be tapping and using this intervention about those panic attacks right here and your brain will be able to process and reprocess much of that information about those panic attacks and make them stop. So it's like, it's a really powerful intervention, because it's so targeted, it can really you can aim it up close, or you can, you can aim it back, you know, years back, and it's still going to get the same result. So it is tapping on the body, it's tapping on some points. And do we do a demonstration of that? Do you want to be fine? Do we have time? Okay.

David Sandstrom 25:40
Yeah, sure. We I was gonna actually suggest that people go back and watch it or listen to episode 28. But that's only an audio episode. So let's go ahead and do a demo. That's great.

Rachelle McCloud 25:50
Okay, let me guide you through this, I do Emotional Freedom Techniques a little different. Because when I'm helping people recover from anxiety, depression, and trauma disorder, there's a lot of work to be done. And I like to layer the work a lot. So I take out I because I like to throw one stone and knock out three things at the same time, or four, or five, if I can. You go girl. So I take out the words entirely, unless you're wordy. If you have to run your mouth to heal, then you keep those words in there. Most of us are not, most of us will use different sensory styles. And so I really want to invite you to use those here. So I'm going to walk you through this. So I want you to think of something in your life right now that man, if you could resolve that issue right there. That would be awesome. So just bring that to mind. What issue that is. Okay. And once you've got that in mind, I want you just to, I'm going to ask you a question, I just want you to see what comes up and just observe that as well. What's so bad about that for you?

David Sandstrom 26:54
Do you want me to say it out loud,

Rachelle McCloud 26:55
you can say it out loud, you can hold it in your mind, that's the one of the beauties of this intervention is you don't have to use words, you don't ever have to tell anybody what you're working on. You don't have to talk about your traumas. And you can if you want to,

David Sandstrom 27:07
I'll just I'll go ahead and I'm pretty open guy. So the thing that came to mind when you said that is I've been trying to establish a social media presence, but I'm overwhelmed with how complicated it is. There's so many different platforms, there's so many different techniques, and in one thing works for one or one Show and one thing doesn't work for another. So I'm a little I'm feeling overwhelmed. So that would be my emotion is overwhelm. And I would love to resolve that.

Rachelle McCloud 27:34
Wonderful. Well, let me ask you What's so bad about that overwhelm for you? I feel helpless. Yeah. Okay. And so once you have that in mind, so you have yours and listeners, I hope you're following along. And if you do choose to please take full responsibility for your, your wellness. When you feel this helpless sensation, I just want you to also look in your body and see where you've also feel that helplessness in your body. Where do you feel that the most in your body as well?

David Sandstrom 28:00
I would say in my gut.

Rachelle McCloud 28:02
Okay, and we can tune in a little further if we want to, and just what color is that? That sensation in your gut?

David Sandstrom 28:11
I would say black.

Rachelle McCloud 28:13
Yeah, we're just, we're just going to bring the survival system the subconscious mind into play a little bit. And how intense is this helplessness and this black gut sensation for you?

David Sandstrom 28:27
On a scale of one to ten, I would say it's a five.

Rachelle McCloud 28:31
Okay. All right. With that in mind, let's go ahead and tap on the side your hand. And just pay attention to that gut loosely, is there, you really can't mess this intervention up, which is why I like to hand it out first. And then you're going to tap on your eyebrow points and these points are by your nose at the beginning of your your eyebrow hair. Yeah. And that Yep, you can, you can, you can tap with one side of your body can tap with both sides, your body can alternate, whatever you like. And then tap on the outside of your eye points. This is in the corners and under your eyes. It's directly under your pupils. under your nose above your lip under your lip. your collarbones this is there's some round collarbone clavicle bones up in here, about an inch under those. And then under your arm, the under your arm point which is about four inches below your armpit. If you were wearing a bra, it's right in the middle of that bra strap. And then I like to include the liver point. So this is a point on the ribs in front like if you were to imagine where your liver is. That point on both sides. Both sides. Gotcha. And then your thumb if you're going to shake your hand say Shake somebody's hand and your hand was not funny. You're going to tap on your thumb closest to your face, closest to your body. By the nail, and then the first finger by the nail, and then the middle finger at the end by the nail facing that, the edge facing up, and then jump to your pinky finger. And then we're gonna get that side of your hand point, that fleshy part. And then I like to add in a triple warmer spot, it's a fear point on the body and it's the back of the hand between the ring finger and the pinky finger. Okay. And, and then the top of the head. Okay, and now I just want you to mentally tune back in to this feeling this helplessness. And that black sensation in your stomach. And see if it still as intense. Sometimes it goes up, sometimes it goes down, sometimes it stays the same.

David Sandstrom 30:52
feels lighter. I wouldn't say it's dramatic, but it feels lighter. You know, from a five to a three.

Rachelle McCloud 30:58
Yeah. And really a when I'm I like to match people with the right intervention for them. Emotional Freedom doesn't get it. I'm moving on. I'm finding a new Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I'm gonna cycle through them pretty quickly until I've got one or two that work really well. So that for me that too, is, is good enough. I'm like where it's helping your body process that a lot of times.

David Sandstrom 31:22
Now, one of the things I've done before with EFT is use use some type of an affirmation statement. You know, even though I have this overwhelming feeling, I feel completely safe or something along those lines, do you use those?

Rachelle McCloud 31:35
I don't. Because I like to speak in the native language of the parts of the body, I like to really bring in the body into the conversation. And so the body isn't going to use words, it uses that black pit sensation in your stomach. And so while you're focusing on that, it's like you're listening, you're like, Tell me more. Mm hmm. Yes, stomach. And the stomach has the whole floor and the end. So the brain really can pay attention to the stomach. I like to bring in the subconscious mind because the subconscious mind is not going to tell this, it's not going to use the words either. It's going to say, let me tell you, let me paint you a picture of this. It's black, it's this color, it's that color, we want to get it involved in the healing. And so I don't, I don't find that I find words are more of a hinderance to the mind body connection than I want to use. So we want to repair that mind body connection. So when I have someone connecting to their stomach, we're wiring the brain to start looking into the body at the same time. And so that's really why I use this, I take out the words, but the words are very valuable. I like to follow practitioners that also use words, that can be really helpful at times as well. But when I'm having people dive in, I want them listening to themselves to resolve their specific issue.

David Sandstrom 32:56
I get it, I get it. Alright, so we're gonna have to quickly go through the next three. So the next one is thought field therapy. What does that look like?

Rachelle McCloud 33:04
Thought field therapy looks very similar to Emotional Freedom Techniques in its basic form, that field therapy is based on using the meridian system and tapping. But you they don't they manually find which Meridian point needs tapping on in what order. So I don't teach that right out the gate because I find Emotional Freedom Techniques faster. But there's an intervention in thought field therapy that is my favorite trauma processing intervention. And it's called collarbone breathing. And it is it's and so it's you're using meridian points, you're using the collarbone points, and you're doing tapping and breathing at the same time. It's pretty complicated. But it is hugely, hugely powerful, especially for somatic distress. And for me in my practice, it's like this big Sledgehammer that if there's a symptom that isn't working, you just go kibosh it with the collarbone breathing one time, and all of a sudden, the brain and the body are like, whoa, let me and resolution happens. And it's really very powerful.

David Sandstrom 34:05
That's really cool. All right. And then energy medicine. What is that a homeopathic? So what does that? What does that

Rachelle McCloud 34:11
energy medicine was created by Donna Eaton and she has a four year trainer program, training program. And she teaches nine of the body's energy systems. I got involved with this because I wanted to I will play all the games with the brain and I was looking for past life regression work. And she has one of those at the very end. I don't know if there are past lives, but I know that brains it's like I will tell you this story from three lifetimes ago as opposed to sometimes it can't tell the story from this lifetime. So I was into it for that. But I didn't know that I would be learning more Meridian stuff I didn't know I will be learning how to work with the chakras, the body's electric system, the grid body's grid system, there's and there's Tibetan rings, there's just auras. There's so many layers of it. I'm what she teaches that I've really been blown away. And I was pretty skeptical. But when I go back with my clients, and they get results from these, I'm like, well, say no more, I'm here for the results.

David Sandstrom 35:12
You know, for me energy medicine encompasses a lot of different things. And one of the things that comes to mind for me is Bach flower therapy. And there's, you know, a doctor by the name of Bach, that they come up with these flower essences that he turned into Homeopathics. And they're very good for emotional issues. So I'm a believer in that. So it's interesting, but that that field covers a lot of different really does modalities fit really, you'd have to get something that you're comfortable with. And I'm guessing that most most of the Christians listening to this program are not going to be exploring past life therapy. Personally, I wouldn't but but in energy medicine encompasses a lot of different things. So the fourth one is, yeah, yeah. EMDR eye movement, desensitization, desensitization reprocessing is a tough one. It's a tongue twister. So what does that look like?

Rachelle McCloud 36:06
That is it's a, it's we're moving eyes from left to right, right to left or in figure eight pattern, but we basically want to cross the center line in the brain. But we're using what we think is happening when we're sleeping, that rapid eye movement sleep, where the brain that's where we believe that the brain is doing its emotional, and mental work at night. And so we will take that in actually while you're awake and make sure that it completes because at night, it's kind of the body's doing it, if it works, great, what's wonderful, if it doesn't work, you wake up in a nightmare. It's like your body's like I tried couldn't complete it, here we go. So we can take that same thing while you're awake and, and get your brain to do its healing function on the specific issues that you want resolved. And we can then help the brain complete that process. That's how I would explain it. It's also it's you can also use bilateral tapping bilateral audio music left and right, left and right, it's the same function we're doing when we take a walk or a run. We're going left, right, left, right, that's why runners talk about that running high, their brain is actually is really, um, that left right pattern positions the brain in a very healthy processing state. And so whatever issues are coming up during that time, they are very likely to get fully processed and resolve the Survival Systems not really going to jump in and resolve them. Even though I jump in and the healing down, even though you might be processing something very painful,

David Sandstrom 37:36
IVe heard a lot of good things about EMDR therapy, but I've never, I've never done it. I'm learning more right now from you that I that I've learned from anybody about this, this whole idea. And it makes sense that we have you know that left, right, left, right, the walking, the running, the listening, even without a pair of headphones on, you're still listening in stereo. You know, when you hear a vehicle go by the road, it starts out on one side and the other side, so we're all we're constantly being sensitive, you know, experiencing that in our senses. So it makes sense to me that this this could work. So in in a clinical environment it when someone's in your office, how do you actually do it?

Rachelle McCloud 38:16
Yeah, so what we have people do is sit down and I in my office, I have these buzzes, they do bilateral tapping. So I will have them, put them under their legs or hold them in their hands depending. And we'll start working on a memory or I'll use it for overall stress, relax a stress processing. And I I've been using it specifically with people with talking compulsions where they can't stop talking. And they feel like they have diarrhea of the mouth everywhere. And so I will have them have the, the buzzes under their legs and just let them run for several sessions. And all of a sudden, they'll come back in, there's quiet, they're there. They're talking slowly, they're getting to say what they want to say. And we resolve it like that. There's other people that when we go back to do trauma work, I will have them will, we will set up the trauma that we decided we want to work on. And then we'll start i movement ting on it, the brain will start by taking it and it'll just start processing through, people will maybe see different scenes in their mind, maybe they might not notice anything. And a lot of times EMDR will sometimes make things more intense and then start resolving up and down. And so but what happens is before the event, it's pretty intense. Like maybe they'll say it's a seven, and then by the end of it, it'll be a one or a zero, the brain will have taken out brains take out pain, and they use that pain and convert that into energy and information. It doesn't stay stored in the body the same way once it makes it through the brains healing process. And so a pain is just not a threat to the front of our brain but to the survival system. It thinks we're dying. So it really will take these memories, the pain out of the memory and then it's like The whole memory gets reconfigured and processed and understood, and recategorize and reprocessed and then when it's pulled up again in the future, because the brain is always reaching from the past to understand the future. And the present moments, when it's pulled up again, the pain won't be in there. And it'll actually that memory will be used to help us instead of harm us. And so the brain does its job, it does that beautifully. So

David Sandstrom 40:25
you stimulate this, this normal brain process with little vibrations underneath someone's thighs,

Rachelle McCloud 40:32
or I have my little EMDR guy here, and I'll do some eye movements.

David Sandstrom 40:36
Okay, so someone just follows that. Yeah. So if you're listening in audio, Rachel's got, it looks like a pointer with a small tennis ball, or maybe a ping pong ball on the end, maybe golf, a little plastic, the size of a golf ball, and she waves it back and forth. Alright, it's interesting. All right, so so someone has their eyes open, I was imagining their eyes closed, but their eyes are open when they do this. Yes.

Rachelle McCloud 41:00
EMDR is really, really powerful. And it's not the right fit for everybody. And if it's not the right fit, it can cause some really harmful things. Therapists are very careful with this and how we choose and who we choose to use EMDR with. And, and people should also be careful with that. Tapping is simple, because you keep control of everything. When you are doing the work, you control what we're focused on how much we're going to do, and it starts desensitizing, immediately. EMDR is like, it's like you're in a healing car with somebody and you move out of the front seat, go sit in the back seat, and your brain gets in the front seat. And it's like, Woohoo, let's do this. And then the brain goes and does the work it wants to do in its own fashion, you don't have control of that as much. And, and the risk is that the brain would sidetrack into something that's more that somebody's not ready to process yet. And so that would be really overwhelming. So

David Sandstrom 41:58
But whereas EFT can be done with some relatively short, short amount of training, personal by the individual EMDR is something that's much better, say, for a practitioner,

Rachelle McCloud 42:09
well, I teach people to use EMDR, I teach people to use some passive methods. And I also teach people how to use the intervention for themselves in the sixth part of my program. So I want them to have skills with these with their brain using these other interventions. And then I will teach them EMDR as well, and how to integrate EMDR into all this the healing work that we can do. So I absolutely hand EMDR over, I believe it's up to people, we should be fantastic at working with our brain. And we do also need to be aware that there are some risks and really learn how to manage that and get the training to do that. So I wouldn't just run up and grab EMDR without some training and how to do that. Right.

David Sandstrom 42:52
So how do you determine as a practitioner? How do you determine which one of these methods is best for that individual?

Rachelle McCloud 43:02
Well, I start in the beginning, I like I'll start with EMDR. I mean, with no, I do not start with EMDR. I start with Emotional Freedom Techniques, yes, then I will move I will, because it takes 30 seconds to see if it's going to create some benefit or not. out then I'll do collarbone, breathing. And, and then energy medicine, I introduced that right away. i But my key for EMDR is I want to know how much unprocessed pain they have. So I want to know that off the bat. If people have I don't have any memories of my childhood. I'm not doing EMDR with them right out of the gate. I'm just not because I don't know what's in there. And if people are like this, if I were to open this, it would be on a scale of zero to 10 It'd be a 14. Okay, that's another sign. I'm not really going to do EMDR with them yet. But then the second thing I want to know is how well do they tolerate their inner pain, their emotional pain? Can they sit with pain inside, that's a skill that's a specific program their brain has developed in the skill set. If they have that, and they're like, I can do a 15 on a scale of zero to 10 any day, then I'm going to take a little bit more risk with them. But I need to see evidence of that in practice. So I'm I'm starting to work with right these interventions are changing how we're wiring from the inside out because they help the brain do to do with this one little part of its rewiring process. And so we're creating healing and rewiring right away, even if we're not using EMDR so we're already doing that. So I so that gives me a time to see how they respond, how they manage distress, how they manage the emotional pain that's surfacing through their body and I'm starting small. I'm starting with a little bit of fear a little bit of anxiety a little bit of anger I'm starting with little stuff I want to see can their brain process this it with this little bit of support or with a que now do we need a collarbone breather, we need bigger support to be able to process this one thing, once we get the brain up and running with those things, or if they've already got that system built, that's a really good time for EMDR, if they want that a lot of my clients, once they're good with Emotional Freedom Techniques are calling already. They're like, I'm good. They don't even want to do the other. But I have a lot of clients that come in with severe complex childhood trauma. And there's just so much work to do what I have a very specific process for this. And I take people with disorders and we resolve disorders in two to six months, I do this very specifically and targetively. But so when it

David Sandstrom 45:40
Does come a point, Rachel, when when you use these techniques, does it come a point where you, that person is now ready for talk therapy is now ready for you to speak some truth into their life and that kind of thing?

Rachelle McCloud 45:51
You know, I what I find is that once the brain can compute its own communication loop, people can solve their own problems, their brain is designed to create solutions. And, and there's a lot, a lot of times people are missing information. And a lot of times as we're processing past traumas, or current emotions, all of a sudden, that missing information shows up. So I never have, they're like, Oh, I know exactly what I'm gonna do. So I don't really get involved with that. But a lot of times, they'll find, gosh, I just never learned this, I've processed a lot of this stuff, I've filled in a lot of the gaps in the hole. But this I've just never learned that's a really great time for talk therapist, they have all these skills, that's really a great time to find an expert in whatever area that one is looking for. Right like to use your example, right, you've got all this overwhelm going on, because you have to choose this stuff, you don't you're missing some information, you're having to gather information, you know, you're processing this thing out of your stomach, and you're starting to feel really calm about it. And you're very clear. And you're like, you know what, I just don't know how to do this. And it will take me this amount of time, very logical. So I'm going to hire somebody, or I'm going to take this Saturday, and I'm going to set my day up, and I'm going to go through each one of the pieces. And you'd be free to do that. And then you would we would actually see you do it. Right now you might not do it. Because it's like, it's so much emotional overwhelm you couldn't you're not your brain, you're you're not through that process, yet you there's still a lot of feedback your body is trying to give you about this information search. Right. And so as you get that process, the emotional overwhelm, will resolve as well. And you'll be very clear. And you'll say, Well,

David Sandstrom 47:29
I gotta tell you, since we did the tapping session, if I would have heard you say, Well, why don't you just hire somebody, or, you know, maybe you should set aside a day aside, that would have made me feel more overwhelmed. But But since we did the tapping, I gotta say I was much more open to hearing you suggest that, because that level was turned down a little bit, the volume was turned down a little bit.

Rachelle McCloud 47:51
And that and these emotions are not here to be pressed down, they're here to be processed through their their part, we want to be a holistic human, which means we want to include this emotional information, this information from our reporting system through and we don't always know what it means, but that's why the front of the brain is the decoder, and the translator, and it makes starts to make sense for us in a way that we can understand and receive and get real clear about, and it uses all this emotion to do that. So it's, it's this, the emotional integration is huge for this stuff, and then the doors open all of a sudden, I don't so I'm not really I'm not counselor, I don't I don't give people counseling, I don't give them advice about what they should do about this, or that or this or that, that you should get a professional for that. I could, I could blow up your marriage, I don't know, I'm trained in brain function, you know. So,

David Sandstrom 48:46
so stay in your lane.

Rachelle McCloud 48:49
I'm staying in my lane. But I also find that people don't have problems with their problems, they have problems with how they feel about their problems. So once we shift the feeling about them, all of a sudden, the doors to their their next steps become open and available, and they're moving down them.

David Sandstrom 49:05
I gotta repeat that people don't have problems with their problems, they have a problem with how they feel about their problems. That's really That's deep.

Rachelle McCloud 49:14
That's brain function. Yeah, that survival system senses, emotional, social, relational pain, and all of a sudden, it's like, we're gonna die. That's an inaccurate response. Right? But your survival system and your body have to figure that out. And they have a specific way to do that. And that is through this communication loop. If they can't complete their communication loop, they will never figure out that it's an inaccurate response. And so then you're gonna have to say, hey, it's an inaccurate response and argue with them. And they're like, I don't believe you, because they didn't complete their process for understanding and working through.

David Sandstrom 49:51
So I'm gonna try to summarize here so. So let's hope I could do this. You probably got to fill in a few gaps, but I'm not feeling good. I'm feeling nervous, anxious by palms are getting sweaty, my heart is palpitating. I'm having trouble concentrating. But you're having trouble going to sleep. Those are all signals that my body is trying to tell me. Hey, there is something that we need to address. Would you please help us here? I'm trying to talk to you. Yeah. And then and then what you do is you come along, you say, Okay, let's bridge that gap. That's right, make that connection. And now I'm going to give you the tools to help you resolve that issue that your body is telling you about.

Rachelle McCloud 50:34
Yes. And this is really can be really frustrating to us. In our prefrontal cortex, we understand. And we think about things like we're lightning fast appear. But what the issue that the body might be bringing up is not even relevant to the situation. But it's like I can't do it. Like it might be your third grade experience in class where things didn't go well, or somebody made a face at you while you were giving a presentation. Right and your body. And here, you're about to go to your presentation. And your body's like, let me tell you this thing that hasn't been resolved yet. And it's so important to this, and you're like, it's not even important, knock it off. And it's like, no, here it is. And so it's like, what I really help people do is let's just give that part of us the microphone for a moment. And access to this, let it compete, compute complete, that this communication loop, let it tell the front of the brain, all it needs to know, all of a sudden, the front of the brain solves this, I think what happens is somebody in the front of the brain jumps down and says, you know, that happened, then it didn't happen now. And thank you for the report. And we understand it more fully now. And we'll do this and the body says, Oh, that's a good idea. We'll do that next week. And so then you go and the body is cool about it doesn't have any extra reports. And there it goes. But in

David Sandstrom 51:48
this video, I want to point out something to do. And it was a great example from the third grade or the fifth grade. We, our minds and our brains are not capable of processing some of these events, especially traumatic events that happened to us. So we make conclusions about our identity, about how the world works, about how we fit into the world. And it's worth revisiting as an adult and saying, wait a minute, that just because that kid made a face at me during my presentation doesn't mean I'm stupid. It doesn't mean that I'm inadequate, it doesn't mean that I'm not beautiful. So yeah, this, this is really, really important stuff that really, I don't think any of us escape this, this is something we all have

Rachelle McCloud 52:29
this brain function. And that I like that you made that point because that those beliefs, once the body gets to finish its report, all those beliefs get reprocessed as well. And the front of the brain is like this doesn't belong here. This doesn't belong here. And all of a sudden, that stuff's gone. And you go back in there, and you people are surprised. They're like, I feel like million bucks. I did great. I rocked that. And it's it's because this, this, the body has its own wisdom, like you said before, it's not it might feel childish, it might feel old, it might feel immature, it might. But every piece of information is relevant and important. And this is a little brain function. Fact, that's really that also supports what you just shared their stuff in childhood, that can't make it past the survival system that doesn't get processed, it doesn't get to end and resolve itself and get processed. And so there's a part of the brain that if it were to make it past the survival system, all of a sudden, it goes through the part of the brain where it gets a timestamp. And now, the brain finally understands that it happened in 2002. Right where it never understood that before. So even so, it's like the present moments are happening. And the brain is like, I don't know, there's all this stuff. I think it belongs here, and it throws all this stuff here. And then we're confused. And we can't concentrate. And we feel this way. And but we don't know what's accurate or not. And now if stuff gets time stamped, all of a sudden, the brain is like, Oh, this doesn't really it starts sorting this stuff out, and just leaves you with what's actually here now, and that is very easy to work with. So that's where we get that clarity from, and that lack of confusion, and all of a sudden, we can make decisions again.

David Sandstrom 54:11
That's great stuff. Rachel, I'm loving this. This is this is going to be an epic episode. I think people get to really enjoy this conversation. So we've covered a lot. So could you leave the listeners with the natural nation? With some low hanging fruit? What What can we do if we say yeah, you know, she's really speaking my language is this is me. Can you give the listeners some low hanging fruit and something they can some steps they can take to make some progress?

Rachelle McCloud 54:35
Yeah, I would say grab an intervention. You will be surprised with zero skill, what your brain can resolve when it gets the support exactly in its process where it needs it at that survival system. And you will see that even some of these massive symptoms were actually low hanging fruit. They will actually resolve you will use these interventions and your brain will be like Oh, I know to do with this, oh, I know what to do instead of instead of panicking, all of a sudden your brain will sort itself out, become accurate and function really, really well, and show up and do what for you what you know it could be doing.

David Sandstrom 55:12
That's great. You know, one other thing I want to say to the listeners is, if you are listening in the audio version, there was a video version, go to the website I'm not sure what episode number this is going to be just yet. But you'll be able to find it with the latest episodes there. And you'll be able to actually visualize the tapping session that Rachel I went through. Rachel, this has been a great conversation. We could talk all afternoon, but we got to wrap things up. If someone would like to get a hold of you. What's the best way to do that?

Rachelle McCloud 55:42
The best way to do that is on my website, Rachel And my name is spelled like Rochelle, I'm sure you'll have a clickable link. But that's my website is RACHELLEMCCLOUD.COM And there's tons of information, you can see the healing opportunities I offer. My curriculum for resolving disorders is on there and available. I have workshops, I have an intensive coaching program. I am and I talk about these issues too minutiae. In, in in on my website.

David Sandstrom 56:16
Yeah, I've checked out your website, and you've got some great YouTube videos on there. I highly encourage people to go check check Rachel up. Rachel, thank you for sharing your wisdom with the natural nation today.

Rachelle McCloud 56:27
Thank you for having me.

David Sandstrom 56:29
For more, go to the show notes page at There you can find in audio as well as a video version of the podcast. We always put links to all the resources that we mentioned, and I include a free downloadable transcript as well. If you're enjoying the show, I sure would appreciate you telling somebody about it. This information is relatively hard to find. If you have a like minded friend, I believe that they will appreciate you telling them about the show. And I would appreciate it as well. That's it for now. Thank you for listening. I'll talk with you next time. Be blessed.

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David Sandstrom

I want to help you maximize your health potential so you can look and feel your best at any age. We do this by aligning our lives more fully with God's natural design for our spirit, mind, and body. I've been helping people maximize their health potential since 2005.

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