Perhaps the most overlooked component to health and wellness is the spirit, mind, body connection. Katy Bosso is a follower of Jesus Christ and a Pg.D. college professor and a mental health counselor. She talks about how she helps clients to become more whole by nurturing all three parts to the human condition.
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It's my contention that human beings are spirit we have a mind. And we live in a body and all three parts to the human condition are interconnected, and interdependent, which means what affects one part of our being will inevitably alter the other. So just, that's the way it works. And if I have an issue going on spiritually or mentally, emotionally, it's going to affect my physical vitality, eventually, it just has to, that's the way things work. Could you just kind of speak to that for just a moment on how our body is interconnected, and how you bring that into your practice. And I share that with your clients
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 0:35
Absolutely trauma, whether it be smaller events, or something like a very profound loss to many other different types of traumas, like war, trauma, or rape or any type of violence. This has an effect on our bodies, right. And every person is different, and they process things differently. They perceive traumas differently, but it has an effect on our bodies. And when we're in that constant state of that fight, flight, freeze response, even when the trauma maybe it's over, maybe it was a single event, but the brain is still perceiving that it's happening to us. It shuts off all the other body systems.
David Sandstrom 1:24
Welcome to the Natural Health Matters podcast where it's all about maximizing your health potential, so that you can look and feel your best at any age. I'm your host, David Sandstrom, Naturopathic Doctor and Biblical Health Coach, and this is episode number 104. Today, we have in the show, Katy Bosso. Katy is a professor of counseling and a licensed mental health counselor in private practice in the state of Florida. She holds a doctorate in counseling, education, and works with clients to overcome anxiety, depression, and relationship issues by helping them connect to their most authentic selves. Katy, Welcome to Natural Health,
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 2:06
Matt, thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
David Sandstrom 2:09
It's my pleasure. I'm looking forward to meeting you, you've got a lot of credentials. And I know that we're like minded when it comes to the spirit mind body connection. And I just, I'm really looking forward to our conversation, I think you're gonna have a lot of great things to share. I'm looking forward to this.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 2:23
Awesome, thank you. I am too.
David Sandstrom 2:26
So give us the 35,000 foot view, talk to the natural nation about what you do today. Just you know, real quick, but just tell us what you do.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 2:34
Sure. So I am a licensed therapist in the state of Florida, I work with children, families, adults, and couples with a lot of different relationship issues, as well as mental health issues like anxiety and depression, self esteem issues, difficulty connecting attachment issues, things like that. And then I'm also a professor of counseling at a Christian university in my area. So I teach in the counseling department, master students of counseling.
David Sandstrom 3:09
That is so cool. I love it. This is such an important work, especially these days is a lot of people starting to acknowledge mental health issues because of the pandemic, it just, you know, uncovered a lot of issues that were probably there underneath the surface. But they became more visible during the pandemic, because of the social isolation and, and the stress and the fear. And all that combined is just really, really tough on all of us. But a lot of people are starting to, I think feel a little more comfortable about acknowledging the mental health issues. If you found that to be true.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 3:41
I absolutely agree. I think when we're looking at 10-15-20 years ago, mental health just was not prioritized. And now we're seeing more and more people coming into therapy, wanting to do some counseling and really work on themselves. And I couldn't be happier about it. It's really a wonderful change to see in our world that the priority is becoming mental health and physical health, too.
David Sandstrom 4:08
I pray that that trend continues, you know, because a lot of people I think because of the stigma years ago, as you said, 10-15-20 years ago, there was more stigma attached to acknowledging that, hey, I could use some help here. You know, it's like a sign of weakness, but no, it's a sign of being human.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 4:23
Exactly. It is.
David Sandstrom 4:26
Yes. Yeah. So was there an event in your life Katie, that kind of brought you into this field and motivated you to do what you're doing today?
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 4:35
Sure. I would say there was a series of small events that led to large events. So I'll talk about that just a little bit. I would say that if I were to identify where did this all start in my life where I became really passionate about emotional well being physical well being and the spiritual concept as well just the whole mind body connection was in college from In undergrad, I just noticed that I was not feeling that vibrant sense of well being anymore. I wasn't sleeping as well. And as most college kids do, I wasn't eating healthy anymore. I wasn't getting my nicely prepared meals at home for mom and just kind of surviving, right? And you say, Domino's, at midnight, Domino's at midnight, all those different types of foods. And so with the lack of rest, and the stress from school, in addition to just not having the confidence that I think I had, when I was at home, I noticed that there was a lot of disconnect in my relationships, there was just a lot of disconnect between me myself, and I wasn't really honoring myself. At that time, I was just kind of going along with what everybody else was doing right, and just trying to survive and figure things out, right, like most 18 year olds are trying to do, and so
David Sandstrom 6:01
Presh on and just plow through it.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 6:04
Exactly. And so I did start feeling my body start to get tired, I started getting a lot of viruses, bacterial infections, like strep. And so my immune system was starting to break down. And so I had to take a lot of different medications, antiviral, antibacterial steroids shots to relieve the swelling in my throat. So I could breathe normally, there were a lot of those different medications. And so I felt that really looking back that broke down my body more and more as well, just the overload of the antibiotics, and started getting digestive issues, gut issues, you name it. And so what slowly started happening is I noticed as I was taking more of those medications, and wasn't really getting the wake up call that I needed, my body was slowly going into what I look back at now is autoimmune, it was starting to really get sensitive to foods to all different types of things, chemicals, you name it. And so that was a real struggle for me trying to figure out what was going on. So that was really kind of one of the small yet large events that took place.
David Sandstrom 7:26
You didn't have auto immune when you were younger, right? This came on in college years.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 7:31
Correct. I didn't have any autoimmune conditions. There's not a whole lot of autoimmune disease in my family. And so this really was, what I can look back at is a medication induced some side effects from that, that it, it just did not do well with my body just the overload of the medications.
David Sandstrom 7:54
Right, right. Well, especially when you get on multiple meds like that, you know, there's a reason why doctors are in med school doctors, you know, students study pharmacological toxicity, because those substances are toxic. Right. You know, I'm not completely against medication time and a place for that. But getting on them and staying on and special, especially several medications at once. Is is a real burden to the body. That's not we weren't designed to operate that way. It's not the way God made us. So yeah, so you were going through a lot.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 8:26
Correct. And so if that wasn't enough, then maybe a couple years later. So after I'd graduated, was really struggling with these health challenges, wasn't getting answers wasn't getting any better. Went to 13 different medical professionals, and they no one could diagnose it with autoimmune, beginning stages of autoimmune, I was able to go to some natural doctors, naturopaths acupuncturists that were able to figure out what was going on. But while that was happening in starting to get some answers, we also had a severe loss in my family. My my brother, we lost him in 2015. So thank you. And so that was really just such an extra burden to place on the body in the mind that the spirit that was already going through a lot of challenges.
David Sandstrom 9:29
Yeah. Wow. That is a lot. Yeah. So Well, that brings up I mean, I'm so sorry to hear about your brother. It's that's tragic. But I just don't want to gloss over that. And you acknowledge that the depth of that that's, that's painful. I'm sure it was unexpected. You're you're a young person, your brother couldn't be you know, a lot older than you. So that's, that's tough. That'll bring on a lot of a lot of issues because there is this brings up something I wanted to talk about is the mental emotional component to our health.
David Sandstrom 10:00
Ya know, it's my contention that human beings are spirit, we have a mind. And we live in a body and all three parts to the human condition are interconnected, and interdependent, which means what affects one part of our being will inevitably alter the other. So just, that's the way it works, you know, and it works both ways. You know, if I had, if I had a pebble in my shoe, and you force me to keep it in there all day long, that would absolutely impact my mood at the end of the day, right. And the same is true in the other direction, if I have an issue going on spiritually or mentally, emotionally, it's gonna affect my physical vitality, eventually, it just has to, that's the way things work. Could you just kind of speak to that for just a moment on how our body is interconnected, and how you bring that into your practice. And I share that with your clients
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 10:49
Absolutely trauma, whether it be smaller events, or something like a very profound loss to many other different types of traumas, like war, trauma, or rape, or any type of violence. This has an effect on our bodies, right. And every person is different. And they process things differently. They perceive traumas differently, but it has an effect on our bodies. And when we're in that constant state of that fight, flight, freeze response, even when the trauma, maybe it's over, maybe it was a single event, but the brain is still perceiving that it's happening to us, it shuts off all the other body systems, right? Right, it is prioritized it prioritizes that trying to stay safe over digestion, it even complicates the immune system. Right? All the other the different organs. It's simply just trying to keep us alive, and get us to survive. And so that's why you'll see with a lot of people that have trauma that hasn't been resolved, you will see it manifesting in their body somewhere.
David Sandstrom 12:09
Yeah, you know, there was a interesting podcast, I was listening to the other day, it's Susie Larson live, I don't know if you've ever listened to her. But she's faith based gal. And she has a lot of great guests on. And she had this doc on. And he was talking about the stress conference that he went to. And he said that, you know, human beings were never allowed, designed to allow stress to be chronic. And males and females process stress, our reaction to stress is a little different. For a male, it's a little bit more of the fight or flight, you know, direct blood flow to the thighs and you know, get ready to run away from the lion. And for women, it's a little bit more of a, an engaged or a heightened sense of protection, and nurture. And he said, the way a woman can reduce that stress response is through connection through emotional connection with another human being with God, with other people, and even a pet. You know, hanging out with your pet on the couch can actually reduce your stress response. And when you think about what we've all been through with the pandemic over the last couple of years in the social isolation, that is the exact prescription to create a chronic stress response. It's really kind of you know, it's it's, it's a huge topic that needs to be addressed.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 13:30
Right? Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Because I think even with a pandemic, some might say, Oh, it's using the word trauma, to describe the pandemic, maybe that's a little over exaggerated. But when we look at just what trauma is, if we think of smaller traumas, larger traumas, it's a chronic state of being disconnected. It really is to safety to health. And so there definitely is a level of trauma. I think for a lot of people that came from the pandemic, not being able to see loved ones, not being able to spend time with them not even being able to go into work to see their colleagues.
David Sandstrom 14:13
Yeah. Well, you know, there's a lot of lot of articles in the public's literature about how, how, just how, what a big issue of social isolation is to people, you know, it leads to dementia, it leads to heart disease, it leads to all kinds of physical ailments, which, you know, most people won't a lot of people have not made that connection, yet. They haven't connected the dots. You know, when I was a practitioner, I was making that same mistake, I was focused almost entirely on the physical, which, you know, most doctors do and even a lot of holistic practitioners do. I call myself holistic at the time, but the truth is, I didn't really know what the term meant. You know, it wasn't till I had my own bout with chronic Lyme disease, which was debilitating fatigue, and migrating joint pain, and it was it was pretty rough. And I had to start, you know, I had a lot of things right and the physical, I was eating good and do my exercise and sleeping and all that. But that wasn't enough to conquer chronic Lyme. And so I started doing some homework on the mental emotional connection and the spiritual connection to health. And what I found was just amazing. And long story short, I beat Lyme disease. It's behind me now. And I wrote a book about my experience, it's called "The Christians Guide to Holistic Health." And I know that you're, you're a follower of Jesus Christ as well. So I'd love it if you would share with the National nation a little bit about that spirituality and how that impacts our health, wellness and our vitality.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 15:38
Awesome. So I want to just talk about my title of the book for just a moment, because it, it relates to the relationship with God and relationship with others as well. So the title that of the book that I just recently wrote, it's called "With Me All Along." And when I was in the midst of all my health struggles, I remember praying so much for guidance and for help. And when I look back, I can really say that God was with me all along, and my brother was helping me was with me all along, and a lot of the answers I was looking for, they were with me all along. And so I love how you were, you know, just talking about that relationship with God that that's, that's really important as well, because, for me, I believe that I developed an even closer relationship with God, when I got sick. And when I lost my brother, I always have been a believer, I was raised in the faith. I was raised in the church in grew up with all of that, but it was when it was the darkest of nights that I really built my faith more than ever before. And I wrote a little bit in the book about how I didn't even know it at the time. But there was almost this wall between myself and God for many years that it was built on low self esteem, or it was built on these just different types of things, beating myself up and not forgiving. And so when I got sick, and when I lost my brother, it's like they all all those walls just kind of came crumbling down. And I really felt so divinely guided in the healing process.
David Sandstrom 17:35
Yeah, well, so your your faith in God was a real encouragement to you during that time of need
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 17:41
It really was because I think what happens with people is when you are in such a rough place, and you don't have the answers, the only thing that you can do if you are a person of faith, or even if you're not, and you're looking for what can I do, because I'm not getting any answers, the only thing you can do is you release control, and you surrender to God and His plan. And when you do that, the relationship becomes much closer because I think he realizes, okay, now they're relying on me fully. And now I can do something with this. Because they are releasing the control. They're handing it over.
David Sandstrom 18:26
That's great stuff. You know, Katy and I were talking before we hit record and her book is, is set up very much like mine, where we have a section on the spirit section on the mind and mental, emotional, and a section on the body. And I just love it that a God has been speaking to both of us in the same fashion. So much so that we decided to write books on the on the topic, I love it. It's great. So what would you say to somebody, Katyt, that says, Well, you know, I'm with you on on, you know, getting closer to God, that's a good thing. But I don't see the connection between that and my physical vitality. Can you speak to that?
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 19:02
So what I'll say, just the first thing that comes to mind for me is I circle back to the control thing. Because if you have that really deep relationship with God, then you will be a lot quicker to whether it's let things go, let stresses go release that control, which then impacts the body. So if I'm having a stressful day, or I'm worrying about something, that cortisol is going to be churning, the adrenaline is going to be churning in my body. But if I'm able to pray about it and say, You know what, God, I know that you have a plan for this. And I have to release this worry. That comes the body so much faster when you can have that is that's your need. You're great. Action is when you start getting stressed to say, I'm giving this to God, that impacts the body on all levels.
David Sandstrom 20:08
Right? Absolutely. As opposed to saying, you know, gritting your teeth and white knuckling your way through this event, you're saying no, God's in control, I'm going to surrender to His goodness, I believe in His, his devotion to Me, I believe that he thinks I'm special. And, and he's not going to give me more than I can handle. Wow, that gives you a tremendous sense of peace, right. And that peace is well, as the Bible says, transcends all understanding. And as you were talking about a moment ago, Katie, and that is, when we are experiencing fight or flight, we're not in the healing mode, our bodies will, will prioritize and take care of the emergency, say, Hey, I don't really need to digest that food really well, right now, because I'm getting ready to run away from a lion. Right? So we do our repair and our cellular rejuvenation, when we're in the parasympathetic or the rest and digest. Part of our autonomic nervous system is dominant. And when we have that faith in God, and we believe in His goodness, and we believe in His sovereignty, and we can release these events, these stressful events in our lives and turn it over to him, we experience a piece that has an immediate benefit to our physical vitality. You know, I often say this on the show, but you know, the what's the fruit of the Spirit? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self control? Who would say that that's not all health promoting? Obviously, it is, right? So we have a connection there God designed to us that way to be connected to him, connected to other people, and connected to our sense of self worth. That's for me, that's the spiritual component to health right there.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 21:59
Right. And I also think, to being able to let go of things easier, like if someone has wronged you, or if you've perceived that someone has hurt you. A person of faith might think, Well, what? It's the corny What would Jesus do, right? The the compassion, saying, What how would Jesus see this situation? How would Jesus see this person? Maybe this person is having a horrible day? Maybe they've they've been recovering from severe loss, or trauma or something? We don't know their story, but when you can look at it from the eyes of a Christian, right? And from the lens of what would you how would Jesus see this individual? I think that you're able to flow with life a little bit easier if things don't go as intended, or if people are acting in a way that maybe isn't helpful for you? Right?
David Sandstrom 22:57
Right. Yeah, that's a huge point. You know, I mean, we've got to, we've got to really remind ourselves of the intrinsic value of every human being, right, and we don't know what that person's been through. I'm thinking of Stephen Covey, in his book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, he shares a story where he was on an airplane, and this guy was just kind of checked out, and his kids were running up and down the aisles and knocking into people and knocking into people sees the scene, he was saying himself, why doesn't this guy control his children? What is going on here? Someone needs to talk to this guy. And finally, somebody did say something to the guy. And he woke up and he said, Oh, we're just coming back from my wife's funeral. I guess the kids just don't know how to react. And that changed everything about how we felt about this guy. You know, we don't know what that person's been going through. And, you know, and we've all been there, we've been, we've been that person before. Right? That needs a little grace. And, you know, if you can, if you can see things through Jesus eyes, it can bring peace in what would otherwise be a stressful situation. So yeah, that's a good word is there's a lot there. It also brings up the topic of forgiveness, doesn't it? Could you speak to that from
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 24:17
so I wrote about forgiveness. In my book, I did this unique exercise that a coach from the writers retreat I attended suggested I do, which I thought it was very interesting, just from a Christian lens. I was trying to figure out what should I write in my book in the spirituality chapter, what does God want me to write? And the coach said, picture yourself that you're in your living room, and you have a Holy Spirit and one arm share you have God and you have Jesus and what would what would they tell you if you have a conversation with them about the book? So it was interestingly sat with that for About an hour by myself and just kind of started writing and felt really divinely inspired. One of the things that came came up David was forgiveness. And it reminds me of the movie The Shack, where, where a Mack has to forgive his father, essentially, and let some of that oh, and I always think that forgiveness, I tell my clients, this forgiveness is not really for the other person, it doesn't have to be for that other individual, the individual that are hurt or harmed. Forgiveness is a way to release for yourself. That's right. Because it's not saying what this person did was okay. It's saying that I'm releasing myself from the resentment from the anger from the charge that isn't serving me in my life. So in that book, in that movie, The Shack, the Holy Spirit shows Mack that I know you're you're angry with your father for how he treated you, but shows him his father at a young age and that his grandfather was abusing and hurting him using him that there's that compassion that comes in powerful, right? So
David Sandstrom 26:19
I really love the fact that that scene that you just described, where he meets his father and offers him forgiveness. I use that as a clip in in a marriage group that we lead, my wife and I, and there's a chapter in the book that we use on forgiveness, and I use that clip to illustrate. Yeah, you know, we need to offer forgiveness, but it's not for only for that person sake, it's primarily for our own sake. Right, we when we set the prisoner free, we realized that the prisoner was me. Correct. And another great quote I love about forgiveness is withholding forgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Yeah, and you know, and that's not natural. You know, it's it's human nature to, to hold on to the grudge. No, no, no, they hurt me. What they did was wrong. Yeah, it was. But you know what, we're better off for our own sake, letting it go. Think of a story I forget where I read this. I didn't come up with this. But I read this somewhere. A woman was at a counselor's office. And the counselor was explaining she he thought that he should, she should forgive her husband. That was they were going through a divorce. And she said, Forgive him that louse. You don't know that guy's ruined the last 20 years of my life. And the counselor said in hell ruin the next 20 years if you don't forgive him. Right. So I could tell you that. It is. Yeah, it really is. One last quote is, Mark Twain said, forgiveness is the fragrance. The Rose gives off to the heel that crushed it. Wow. That is beautiful. Yeah, so that's, I mean, Jesus was big on forgiveness. That's all throughout the Bible, Old and New Testament. And, you know, it's, it's a powerful spiritual concept. I got a whole chapter on it in my book as well, and not easy to do a lot easier said than done. Right. Particularly for those bigger offenses. You know, as you said, some of the trauma that people might be going through, you know, a rape or, or something, you know, that's just really in the physical and unnatural realm. Unforgivable. But through the power of the Holy Spirit, we can and it's, it's it can, it can bring a release and a sense of peace. That is a powerful medicine,
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 28:51
it is for physical, so many people that I work with, say, if I forgive this person, then they can just go on their merry way and act like it ever happened. And so that's why they hold on to it. But what I explained to them is that, like, you've reiterated that it's for them so that they can go on their merry way. Right and say, let me look to the future. Let me look to the president, all this abundant love and blessings that that God has for me moving forward and not look at the past, right and those wrongdoings that you can really move forward when you choose to forgive. And it doesn't mean that you forget. Yeah. And I also tell clients, if that person if it doesn't serve you anymore, to have a relationship with that person, you don't have to keep them in your life. If it's a friend that's really hurt you. It's okay to set a boundary and walk away. So forgiving doesn't mean that okay, we're hanging out tomorrow and you're my best friend again. It doesn't have to mean that right? It's simple. means that you're letting go. And that person, you might go separate ways, right? So it can mean that many different things. But I always try to encourage clients that let this go for yourself.
David Sandstrom 30:14
Yes, yeah, reconciliation is a great thing is shining can happen. But it's not always possible. You know, it's possible very possible that the person we need to forgive is deceased. Right. So there won't be any reconciliation with that relationship. But you can still let go of the anger and the resentment and the bitterness. There's a letting go there that can be done. And you know, I don't think I don't think anybody gets past the age of five or six without having someone in their life that they forget. Right? It's just a normal part of living here on this planet. We live in a sinful, fallen world. And and that's gonna happen, people are gonna hurt us. I love what John Eldridge in the Wildwood heart podcast, he says, living in communities a lot like being a bunch of porcupines on a cold night. We need to get together for the warmth, but we poke each other with our spice. I love that he's got a he's got a real way with way with words that guy loved,
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 31:14
I think hurting one another. As hard as this might be to say, it's inevitable, that we're going to hurt each other, we're going to hurt each other's feelings, we're going to make choices that might hurt another person. It's the repair part. That is the most important.
David Sandstrom 31:32
Right? Yeah. And I want to say one more thing about the relationship with that person, you know, there could be something that was done to you that that person has legal consequences for, you know, forgiveness doesn't mean letting go of the consequences. You know, some people, some people might have to face a judge one day for what they've done. But that doesn't mean we withhold forgiveness. Right. Right. It's, there's a lot of misconceptions about there about out there about what forgiveness isn't, isn't in, it's a topic worth exploring. And if this sounds like it's resonating, I recommend you pick up Katy's book or my book, and read up on it because this is something worth doing. Really, you can do it on your own. And I have a forgiveness exercise in my book, "The Christians Guide to Holistic Health." But you're best done with a counselor best on with a professional. That's the probably the ideal way to do it. Someone who's who's knowledgeable in this,
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 32:33
I agree. Because when you try to do it on your own, sometimes you get a little stuck, because the brain that defense Center says, No, I don't want to let this go. Because if I let this go, then maybe I'll forget about it. And it could happen again. It's like the brain wants to keep reminding you so that you don't forget so that this danger doesn't occur again, this harm doesn't occur again. And so sometimes you do need a therapist to help you worked through some of that.
David Sandstrom 33:03
Yeah, absolutely. So let's shift gears a little bit, if you don't mind. So let's talk about purpose. So a lot of people generally don't associate their life's purpose with their physical health. But what would you say to that?
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 33:18
I would say that a lot of times, you'll talk to people that have had physical health challenges and or other different challenges, and that sometimes their life purpose comes out of that. And then I'll also say, the flip side of that, if a person is not physically well, right, and their brain isn't healthy, it's not functioning, top notch, right capacity, that you really are in more in survival mode, and you're not able to access or pursue your purpose when you're not healthy. Right? You don't have the motivation. Sometimes people are really depressed when they have physical problems, and if that inflammation affects their brain, and so they're not wanting to go out into the world. So I think it it's a bi directional thing, right?
David Sandstrom 34:13
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's a big deal. You know, I mean, waking up in the morning and not have not knowing your purpose. What am I doing here? That can bring a great deal of stress again, and once again, it's about pursuing peace, isn't it? Right?
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 34:26
Absolutely. Yeah, I definitely think I definitely think you're spot on with that.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 34:34
Yeah, yeah. Thank you. You know, I just My heart goes out to people that reject a belief in God and have faith in God Most High. Because if we're just a cosmic accident, there really is no purpose to life, right? I mean, you can't find your purpose. If if every if everything we see is all just a random accident. It's really kind of depressing to think about it, you know, I just a lot of people living that way. And my heart goes out to those people. I wish they could see the truth
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 35:05
I and I really think that if you have the belief system that we're all here for a reason that you were, maybe you don't know what your purpose is yet, but that you were designed that God has a special plan for you that you're gonna go out and you're gonna serve in a way that no one else can. That is really exciting. And when you can find that purpose. I mean, it feels like your worlds on fire, but in the best way that you're so excited to get up in the morning, you are able to help, and you're able to provide service to people. And I think all those neuro chemicals are so helpful, healthy and helpful to the body as well.
David Sandstrom 35:48
Yeah. Yeah. You know, Katie, on a related topic, creativity, you know, each one of us is unique, right? And we have different skills and talents and abilities and gifts? And how does, how does creativity fit into all of this. So
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 36:07
One of the things that I think is very much missed, and is a really big part of healing for people is play in creativity. Because when you're sick, or you don't feel well, or you're in burnout, whatever that looks like for you, or you're so disconnected from God, you forget how to play, how to enjoy your life, how to have that childlike wonder, and that gratitude for everywhere that you're going in everything that you're seeing. And I think that creativity is such a wonderful outlet for healing. And it also helps with that emotional processing and release to whether it's dance or writing or painting. We're meant to be inspired and creative, right? And, and that piece gets missed a lot of times too, right? People are focused just on the supplements or just on the diet or just on the exercise. And there's not that, that other amazing part of the healing process.
David Sandstrom 37:09
Yeah. That's it. That's a really good word, Katie, you know, and I would say this, just to add to that, you don't have to invent the next iPhone. You know, it can be, it could be something simple, you know, maybe you're going to decorate your room, you know, just tap into whatever God puts on your heart. I mean, I love this right here, this creative process of producing a podcast episode. It speaks to my heart, I really enjoyed doing this. I don't know if I'll ever stop because it really brings me a great deal of joy. To participate in this creative process. It's something that I don't know how to how to explain it, it just it floats my boat. And, you know, I think that's, that's very much health promoting, you know, if you don't have that outlet, you're missing something something important.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 37:58
Right. And I, I do see a lot of that research that talks about having purpose in life and people that have that higher sense of purpose, they have lower cardiovascular risk, they have lower inflammation in their bodies, right? They sleep better.
David Sandstrom 38:21
Ya, you know, we've all heard the stories about an elderly couple, you know, been married for 50 years, spouse dies, and they lose their sense of purpose. And the remaining spouse quickly deteriorates and passes themselves, because they've lost that. That connectedness and their purpose, which is a shame, but we've seen it we've all heard it happen, right? Heard about
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 38:46
that light that fire inside them goes out essentially that passion. Yeah. Really? Yeah.
David Sandstrom 38:53
Yeah. So if we're, you know, maybe we're not 90 years old and you're facing, you know, an infirm infirmity, but we might have some health challenges that we'd like some help with, and exploring these types of things. You know, forgiveness, prayer, meditation, in mo emotional connectedness, processing our emotions properly, which is another topic I don't know if we, if you'd like to get into that. But, you know, it's my contention that emotions are a very, very good thing. They tell us a lot about our life experience and how how we're wired, but many of them of the emotions were never designed to remain with us love joy and peace Yeah, go for it all all you can bring me all the love joy and peace you can never I don't want to stop. But you know, other things like frustration, guilt, anger, resentment, those need to be processed and let go of
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 39:49
Those are supposed to be transient, right that they come they go. They move through us. And I think people when they start to feel some Have those, we call it in the therapy world that there's no bad emotions, right? There are comfortable emotions, and there are uncomfortable emotions. And so when those come up, sometimes those uncomfortable emotions like anger or fear and anxiety, people tend to want to stuff those down, and they want to hide them. And that's when you see sometimes avoidance or even addiction behaviors. When those emotions, they're just uncomfortable, but they're not dangerous. And so I teach people, first of all, how to sit back and label what they're feeling. Because sometimes people don't even know what they're feeling. They say, I have all of this discomfort. And so we sit back, and I have them just name the emotions and say, I am this I am that. Not to justify it not to say, Oh, but I shouldn't be feeling this way. But just to name it. Sit with it. Yeah, tell me, where do you feel in the body? Where's it sitting right now? On a scale of one to 10? How big is it, and then giving them tools to dissolve or work through that that can be through writing that can be just talking about it? A lot of times it can be different types of movement, exercising? Maybe it's some forgiveness that we need to talk about, they need to move through, or setting boundaries if they're feeling resentment. Right?
David Sandstrom 41:32
Yeah. Yeah, very good. That's all good stuff, you know, and this, this is stuff that you're not going to get the doctors, you won't, you won't. Right. And, and, and also, you know, emotional issues, can manifest in, in gut health and often lead to skin issues. You know, we might have trouble with, let's say eczema. And really, the the root is it's mental, emotional. It's a it's an emotion, it's been dragging us down for far too long. And it's finally starting to manifest in the physical, but the root is in the mental, emotional. So this is stuff that, you know, it's not easy to go there. No one wants to, to talk about what happened to them in fifth grade, when they were embarrassed in front of the class, or whatever it was. But you know what, no one escapes those things. And we all go through childhood trauma. In fact, if you don't mind, I'd love to talk about that a little bit. Could you? Could you talk about how childhood trauma impacts us as adults
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 42:35
Certainly does. 100%. Because here's the thing with childhood trauma. There are certain developmental ages when we're that small in which we can't really use language, right, we can't really put our finger on or describe what's happening to us, we just kind of feel it right in the body. And so if we're not given those different tools to process it, for some children, it's through different play activities, or teaching them different coping skills, right, or even using words or colors to describe sadness or anger, if they are not able to process that with a safe adult, or maybe they even tell an adult about trauma. And they are told that they made it up that they're lying, that they're crazy, or that the parent or the teacher doesn't have time to hear about it. They essentially stuff it down. In the other part with kids, too, is when they're very small. This it's kind of a funny thing to think about. But very small children. They are very egocentric. So the world kind of revolves around them. Right? It's normal. There's nothing unhealthy about that when they're little. But what does that mean? That means that when mom or dad come home from work, and maybe they are irritable towards the child, or there's some other type of interaction, our adult brain would be able to say that parent had a really hard day at work, and they didn't mean to be irritable, or yell or even hit a child. But what is that child going to think? Because they're so egocentric. They're going to label that as I'm bad. I've done I'm bad and something's wrong with me and I'm unlovable. Yeah, unless it's explained to them. So that's why the positive parenting and that mindful parenting is making sure that you try to explain things to a child, right about the world around them about even our behaviors because we're not perfect. We're going to make mistakes, but explain to the child you know, Mommy had a really hard day today and I might be a little quieter than normal. Right? And but love you, you're amazing. You're wonderful. So that happens a lot in childhood, and then that's not resolved. And so we end up seeing the world through different colored glasses. It's like we have those events. And then we put on glasses that maybe they're green, or they're purple or red, whatever color that is. And so we go through adulthood with these glasses that say, the world is unsafe, I'm unlovable, I mess everything up. No one cares about me. Right. But that that was just a thought adopted in that younger part.
David Sandstrom 45:30
Right? Oh, that's so powerful. Katie, it really really is, you know, our prefrontal cortex, the rational part of our brains are not developed to correct me if I'm wrong, but 25-26-27 years old, right? So that child's brain doesn't have the capacity to say, Hey, Dad had a rough day at work. The reason why he snapped at me was because he's just, he's got a lot of stress that he's carrying on on his shoulders. It was nothing that I did. But you know, how does a child process that they really don't have the ability to and as you said, very well, that if a, if an adult can come alongside and explain things, that's great, but I would suggest that most of the time, that doesn't happen, and the child has to just wrestled with that on their own. And they carry that into adulthood. And, and, you know, my wife and I have been doing marriage groups for the past 11 years. And we, we see this work out in people's lives and in their marriages, you know, we all get married thinking, everything's gonna be bliss. But you know, we have, we all show up with a bag full of junk, and we throw it at our spouses feet, and say, you you do clean it clean this up. And when they can't, and they don't, we get disenchanted and disappointed in the relationship. But you know, that's, that's part of being human once again. And it can be processed as adults. And it's well worth, as an adult taking a look at some of these, these events that took place at especially 12-13-14 years old. Those are really formative years, where we form long held beliefs about how the world works, and how we fit in the world. That's a critical time. So I would encourage people to if you're struggling in your marriage, think back to the issues that were going on in your home at that time, maybe a couple years before, a couple years after, but we find in our marriage groups that that is a formative, a very important era for people. And it's if your relationships are struggling, your health might be struggling as well, because as we talked about earlier, it's all connected,
David Sandstrom 47:36
Right? Absolutely. Yeah. And that's, that's a bridge that most practitioners don't want to build. But it should be explored. Nonetheless, it's an it's an important part of becoming more whole, to bring to usher in a new level and the next level of health, joy.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 47:58
I imagine one day going to a doctor's office and you say you fill out a form. And there's a spot to check a box that says, and I'm having relationship issues, right. So maybe you're going in because it's a digestive issue, or you have chronic migraines, but just to give the doctor more information, it's that okay, some relationship issues or childhood traumas that weren't addressed or even some adult traumas that I visualized that maybe that can be part of the the inventory or the intake form.
David Sandstrom 48:33
Yeah, wouldn't that be a wonderful day? Now, those of those practitioners are hard to find, and I appreciate what you're doing, Katie, it sounds like you're doing a great work. And God bless you for for bringing up these topics and being willing to go there. Because frankly, it's easier just to pop pills, right. And, you know, MDS will prescribe pills, and natural practitioners will recommend supplementation. You know, I'm not not opposed to supplements, I take supplements every day. They're useful. But, you know, we don't want to make the same mistake that the allopathic practitioner makes and treat symptoms with pills. We want to get to the root. And if those pills can, can support a body system that needs support, great, have at it, it's a good thing. But using that as a front line of defense, or you know, as a treatment plan is probably not the best way to go.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 49:26
Well, the route is so important. So Katie,
David Sandstrom 49:29
This is this has been super enjoyable. Is there? Is there something you'd like to share that we haven't covered?
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 49:35
I just I'd love to wrap up on the relationships piece that you were just talking a bit about that. I think relationships are really, really important people having a doctor that is in alignment, right? You're just sharing a little bit about that, that there's some doctors there's a lot of doctors that They don't look at the route. And so having a doctor that's in alignment with your values is really important. And that's in alignment with the vision that you see for your health. And that they have the information that so having that support system, making, looking at your relationships, making sure that you have a great support system, within your family, within your friends, within the people that you work with. I think that is a big thing, just to wrap that up, that will set you up for success and your relationship with God. Right? Look at your relationships, and how are they contributing to your health? Or how are they making your health worse?
David Sandstrom 50:41
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's a good word. Love, it's, I think it's a great thing to wrap up on, look at your relationships. It's great stuff. So if someone wants to, if someone's resonating with this message, Katie, what's the best way to do
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 50:54
so I have a website, it is KatyBosso.com, where they can find information about my book, they can send a message. I'm also on psychologytoday.com. So the website is Katie Bosso, k a t y B as in boy o s s o .com. And then Psychology Today is essentially a directory of psychologists, counselors, mental health professionals in your area. And so I have a profile on there. And it talks a little bit about what I do and the types of therapies that I specialize in. If they're interested in learning more,
David Sandstrom 51:36
I'll be sure to put that link in the show notes for sure. And your book is called, again, the name of your book with me all along. All right, and I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well. Katie, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with the Natural Nation.
Katy Bosso Ph.D. 51:49
Thanks so much for having me had a great time. Me too.
David Sandstrom 51:54
For more, go to the show notes page at davidsandstrom.com/104. There you can find an audio as well as a video version of the podcast. I always include a full downloadable transcript with timestamps, and is always some type of a content upgrade to help you go deeper with that subject. If you're enjoying the podcast, I sure would appreciate you telling a friend about it. The most common way someone finds a new podcast is someone tells him about it. And this information is relatively hard to come by the type of guests that I bring on and the type of information that we're sharing is not often heard in mainstream sources. So I'll bet your friend would appreciate if you have a like minded friend, they would appreciate you telling them about it. That's it for now. Thanks for listening. I'll talk with you in two weeks. Take care and be blessed.