by David Sandstrom 

May 31, 2021

In this episode, I talk with Dr. David Jockers about the most ancient and powerful healing strategy known to mankind, intermittent and long-term fasting. 

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Show Notes

1.

Today's Guest...

  • Dr. David Jockers
2.

Topics Discussed...w / Time Stamps

  • 1:11 - Introduction
  • 2:51 - A  fasting strategy that helped to beat stage 4 cancer
  • 5:32 - Dr. Jockers journey into intermittent fasting
  • 9:31 - Dr. Jockers dispels some of the myths surrounding fasting
  • 12:10 -Burning fat for energy instead of carbs
  • 15:28 - Fasting for spiritual breakthroughs
  • 16:35 -Fasting helps to rebuild new, healthier cells
  • 23:41 - Butcher Box promo
  • 25:09 - Fasting for balancing hormones
  • 28:40 - Fasted exercise
  • 29:37 - How our bodies produce energy
  • 30:47 - Fasting for stem cell production
  • 35:03 - Fasting for gut health
  • 36:13 - Fasting for spiritual benefit
  • 40:03 -Start out slowly
  • 342:36 - Conclusion
4.

Transcript... 


Scroll through the text below to read the full transcript.

David Sandstrom 0:00
This is a sample of what you'll hear on this episode of natural health matters.

Dr. Jockers 0:04
Part of this process is really teaching your body become an efficient fat burner. So doing it right doing it the right way, by intermittent fasting and eating your meals in a compressed time window, which we'll go through, you know, as we go on in this interview, actually teaches your body to burn fat more effectively and actually improves your overall metabolic rate and your hormone function in general.

David Sandstrom 0:26
Welcome to the Natural Health Matters podcast where it's all about maximizing your health potential, so that you can pursue the abundant life more effectively. I'm your host, David Sandstrom, naturopathic doctor and biblical health coach. And this is episode number 48.

David Sandstrom 0:48
This episode is brought to you by butcher box, butcher box delivers high quality meats and seafood directly to your door. Check them out by going to my website, David sandstrom.com, forward slash resources, use my affiliate link by clicking on the butcher box logo. And right now they're offering my listeners the natural nation $30 off your first order.

David Sandstrom 1:11
Today we're talking with Dr. David jockers. He's written a great book. It's called the fasting transformation. And he's got some great insight to share. When I was going through this episode in the final production, I found myself with a pen and paper in hand taking notes because he was dropping so many value bombs and I didn't want to miss any of it. So you might want to consider taking notes yourself because this is a really good episode. Out of all the interviews I've done. This one is a real standout. I've been following Dr. jockers for years, and he's got a great website at DrJockers.com and he's got a super informative email newsletter, so you might want to check him out. So anyway, let's jump right into my interview with Dr. David jockers. Alright, today we're talking with Dr. David jockers. He's the author of the book The fasting transformation of functional guide to burn fat, heal your body and transform your life with intermittent and extended fasting. Dr. David jockers, is a doctor of natural medicine, and runs one of the most popular natural health websites and DrJockers.com. His work has been seen on popular media such as the dr. oz show, and Hallmark home and family. Dr. jockers is the author of the best selling book The keto metabolic breakthrough by victory belt publishing, and the fasting transformation. He is a world renowned expert in the area of ketosis, fasting and functional nutrition. He's also the host of the popular Dr. jockers functional nutrition podcast. Dr. jockers lives in Canton, Georgia with his wife Angel and his twin boys, David and Joshua and his daughter joyful. Dr. jockers. It's a pleasure to have you on the show.

Dr. Jockers 2:41
Well, thanks so much, David, I appreciate it. And so cool that we go to the same church. Yeah, you know, we have a lot a lot of similarities, teaching biblical health concepts and helping people get healthy naturally.

David Sandstrom 2:51
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I've been following your work for many years. And through a mutual friend, I find out that you attended a church. So I reached out to you. And that was really great to meet you the other day, I really think it's just great that we're both on the same team here teaching people about how to expand the kingdom of God with holistic health. It's really yeah. Anyway, I'd like to share a quick, quick story. I have a friend, he's a pilot friend of mine. I'm an airline pilot, by the way. Yeah. And we've been friends for about 35 years. And two years ago, he got diagnosed with colon cancer. And I tried to encourage him to embrace some natural, holistic, holistic methods, not to replace his medical treatment, but to come alongside of it. And he wouldn't even really have any part of that discussion. You just gonna follow doctor's orders and go the medical route. You know, okay, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink while after he finished his chemo. And he knew that his body was very toxic. I said, you know, you ought to try to get into some intermittent fasting because I think that could be very beneficial to you. So he did, he started educating himself on it, and he decided to go to an 18 six, intimate and protocol. And then two days a week, he was just doing water and tea. And he's been doing that for a couple of months now. And he has gone from full blown diabetic at a fasting agency of 12.0, down to non diabetic a 5.9. Praise God, he's hit the pounds of melting off, he had peripheral neuropathy. He couldn't feel his feet. And now the doctor told him that was for life. That feeling is coming back. He couldn't wear flip flops before because he couldn't tell the flip flop was hanging on his toes or not. Now we can wear flip flops, and his his progress has been dramatic. So he's a huge fan of intermittent fasting. So I wanted to offer that story. A little bit of a primer is how powerful of fasting can be. And I don't normally add to an interview that we recorded earlier. But from the time of this recording, to the time I got around to producing it was about a six week period. And I got an update from my friend Howard. And the reason why he started his intermittent fasting protocol is he had six tumors that had metastasized to his liver, and his doctors told him his team told him there's nothing else we can do for you go home get your affairs in order. We gave you four months to live. Well it's been About six or eight months now, he went in for a scan, and he is now cancer free, he does not have any tumors on his liver at all or anywhere in his body. And it's all started. His improvement started when he implemented his fasting protocol, powerful stuff. Obviously, Dr. jockers, you are one of the world's experts in this field. And I'd like to know how you first became interested or became aware of intermittent fasting and how powerful it is. And after that, if you'd share some of the more common myths associated with intermittent fasting,

Dr. Jockers 5:32
You know, the way that I discovered fasting to begin with I, I was actually a personal trainer, and I was eating like six meals a day, you know, I would eat at the end at night before I had to have a protein shake before I went to bed. And then I'd wake up the next morning, and I had to have like a big bowl of whatever I was eating oatmeal or something like that. And I just thought this is this is how I had to be like, I would lose muscle, I would lose weight. If I didn't do that. And then all of a sudden, I developed pretty severe gut issues, I always had some level of digestive issues, but it really hit a head when I was in my early 20s to the point where I ended up losing about 30 pounds. And this is really over like a year timespan. And and I was still trying to lift so trying to eat a lot. But I just couldn't absorb nutrients. I ended up with orthostatic hypotension where I go from sitting to standing, I feel dizzy, I was fatigued a lot. My blood pressure was routinely very low, like 90 over 50. And, you know, along that path, that's actually when I read a book by Jordan Rubin, our friend, our mutual friend, the makers diet and I start I read that book, I started making nutrition changes. And that definitely helped. And then I noticed that when I didn't eat breakfast, I'd started graduate school. And I started not eating breakfast, and I would just drink a ton of water between the time I woke up in the middle of the day, and I had never heard the term intermittent fasting nobody had ever said this term to me at all. I just realized I felt a lot better. And so I would just hydrate my body I would super hydrated drink, you know, pretty enormous amounts of water, I would, I would take some salts with it. And it I wouldn't actually get hungry to like two or three o'clock in the afternoon that all of a sudden, I would get really hungry. And I would eat, you know, for like four hour time span from till about seven o'clock, you know, and then I would wake up next day is the same thing. I felt the bet I felt so good. I felt the best I'd ever felt during the course of my life. And I gained back that weight. And I was tell everybody was like, like, they just saw this metamorphosis in me. They were like, what are you doing, I used to tell people, I drink a gallon of water between the time I wake up and at noon, right. And I thought it was the water. But you know, later I realized, wow, it's actually this process we call intermittent fasting where I was actually restricting my feeding windows to a certain period of time during the day. And because of that my body was actually getting very energy efficient, very metabolically flexible, really reduce inflammation allowed my gut to heal, and I was able to get my health back. And so that's how I actually discovered it. And it wasn't until really about five years later, around 2009 2010 that I actually heard the term for the first time. And I was like, yeah, that's what I do, what I'm doing. And so, really with that, like, you know, one of the biggest myths is just what I talked about is this idea that if we don't eat every few hours, we're just going to waste away. And for some people, they want to lose weight. For me, I've never tried to lose weight ever in my life. I'm an ectomorph, I've thin shoulders, you know, very lean very low body fat. So I've never tried to lose weight. And yet fasting is really a has been literally a lifesaver for me, I have no idea where I'd be in my life, I'd probably be in a hospital somewhere, if even alive, if I didn't discover this is literally saved my life. And on top of that it's allowed me to perform at my highest level in business. I'm you know, now I'm 39 I'm stronger, and I have better endurance, I recover better, less inflammation in my body than I did in my early 20s. You know, I feel better than ever, and I'm only eating typically once or twice a day. And you know, and I feel that good.

David Sandstrom 9:08
That is really incredible. And I'd like to take just a moment here to restate what you just said for the natural nation. He's been fasting and he has more energy. He performs better at the gym, more strength, more mental clarity. And it's if you've never experienced the the benefits of fasting that sounds so counterintuitive, right? But but it's true. It really is true. So share some more.

Dr. Jockers 9:31
Yeah, for sure. Well, that's obviously the number one thing is that you're going to waste away number two is that it slows down your metabolism this idea that, you know, if you are trying to lose weight and you fast, then your body is going to go into starvation mode you're not going to be able to lose weight. Now that's kind of a half truth. The half truth is this is that if you are on a low calorie diet. So if you're eating so you know the average person they say needs about 2000 calories a day. So if you're eating 1200 calories a day, every Day for, you know, a long period of time and you're doing it in a way where you're kind of snacking or grazing throughout the day, it definitely can have a negative effect on your metabolism. Alright, so that's not what I recommend. However, what I recommend is feast or famine cycling. And when we eat, we feast and this is really ancestral. So when our ancestors had a great harvest, or they killed an animal, they didn't have refrigeration, they didn't have pantries, you know, the shelf life of their food was a lot less. And so that when they had food, they ate and they ate abundantly, they ate till, you know, they were they're fully satiated, right, we're not trying to just, I'm only gonna have 300 calories now, and then, you know, save this, they weren't counting calories ever eat till they're fully satiated. This is really part of our genetic blueprint. But then they would go periods of time, whether it was you know, throughout the course of a day, or sometimes multiple days, where they didn't have access to food, or at least not much food. And so because of that our body actually is really good at this sort of feast famine cycling. And when you do that, when you when you do eat you feast that actually stimulates your metabolism, believe it or not, actually, intermittent fasting actually releases certain hormones like cortisol and norepinephrine, things like that, that actually help with fat burning, believe it or not, we hear bad things about cortisol. And you know, certainly we need balance when it comes to cortisol is a stress hormone. However, cortisol actually is what gives us wakefulness, energy, right? When we feel really energized, really mentally clear, that's because we get the right amount of cortisol, without that, we feel fatigued, you don't have to get up and go,

David Sandstrom 11:36
cortisol wakes us up in the morning, we get a cortisol in the morning, and that's what helps us wake up in the morning.

Dr. Jockers 11:40
That's right, that's right. And it's also a fat burning hormone, right. And so we need that. And so when we're fasting, we elevate that. So, you know, really part of this process is really teaching your body become an efficient fat burner. So doing it right, doing it the right way, by intermittent fasting and eating your meals in a compressed time window, which we'll go through, you know, as we go on in this interview, actually teaches your body to burn fat more effectively, and actually improves your overall metabolic rate and your hormone function in general.

David Sandstrom 12:10
Yeah, well, you know, most people will get their energy from carbohydrate, because it's a simpler metabolic process for the body to convert carbs into energy. But the problem is, when you get your your energy that way, it's kind of like throwing a newspaper on an on a fire, you're going to get a big flash of energy real quick. And then it's going to Peter out and you're gonna have nothing left. And your your body is far more efficient at metabolizing fat over the long haul. So when you're using fat, when you're burning fat for energy, you have sustained energy throughout the day, you don't get the sinking feeling at three in the afternoon, you need to get another cup of coffee, if you're a fat burners, is that correct?

Dr. Jockers 12:46
Absolutely. Plus fat is actually a much cleaner fuel. What I mean by that is, when we burn sugar or glucose, we produce a lot of metabolic waste free radicals that trigger oxidative stress. So you think about it like a car with really bad gas mileage and really bad carbon emissions, right, not good for the environment. Whereas fat gets, it's very energy efficient, we can produce a lot of energy from a gram of fat, and then on top of that produces a lot less metabolic waste. So it's much more efficient, so you get better gas mileage and less exhaust less carbon emissions, right. So that's really what we're looking for. And then, you know, basically, just about all the cells of our body can utilize fatty acids for energy, but the brain cells cannot. And so that's why the body will actually when we're doing intermittent fasting, or when we teach the body, how to become a great fat burner. The body will take fatty acids, bring them to the liver and convert them into a water soluble molecule called ketones and ketones are able to cross the blood brain barrier. And they're an incredible fuel source for the brain when we think about things like depression, anxiety, brain fog, irritability, things like that. These are all conditions of brain inflammation. And when those things when we have that on a chronic basis, when we're younger, it leads to neuro degeneration, things like dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, so these are long term states of brain inflammation. When we get ketones up in the brain, it turns off inflammatory signals, there's actually something called the neuro inflammazone, which is a group of receptors in the brain that amplify the message of inflammation. It's like, it's like a big siren for the whole city. You know, instead of one police officer chasing one criminal, you know, when you get the siren going off in the city, you've got all these different police officers looking everywhere trying to find criminals. And so it's kind of what happens in our brain. So when we get ketones elevated in the brain actually turns that off. So turns off this inflammatory signal. It also turns on genes that are that promote longevity and promote optimal brain function. So it's really really good state to be in for the brain. So somebody like myself, who is very, very lean. One of the reasons why I practice intermittent fasting is because I want lower levels of inflammation in my body, and especially in my brain. So I can really think sharply and clearly have phenomenal energy be more creative and more productive. I'm not looking to lose weight, which many people are. And that's great. I'm looking for high level performance and intermittent fasting turns on these ketones and really allows me to be able to perform at my best.

David Sandstrom 15:28
That's, that's terrific. That's great stuff. You know, I was first introduced to fasting about 20 years ago and a lot like you, I did it. And I didn't realize what I was actually doing, what the benefits I was doing for my body. I did it for a spiritual breakthrough. I had a spiritual mentor of mine. And we had I needed something. We had two houses up for sale for a year. And I was telling him, I really need to get rid of one of these houses to mortgage it's just burying us. He said, Have you ever tried fasting day? I said, Well, no, never even considered it. He said, when I need a breakthrough, that's what I do. So I did a three day fast. And the day after I finished I fast we had a contract on the next hour. So it was a great spiritual breakthrough. Yeah, praise God for that. But I mean, that's a good reason for doing fasting. But the secondary benefit is all these physical benefits. mental clarity is wonderful, my wife, since I'd since that time, I've been doing a three day fast, like every other month. And when I do that, my my patience goes up by my irritability goes down, I have so much more mental clarity, my mood has improved dramatically. I just feel better. It's something I just enjoy doing. And I really didn't know why until I started reading books like yours, why all these good things are taking place.

Dr. Jockers 16:35
Yeah, it's amazing what happens, you see, the body is either going to be in a building state, or a cleansing and healing state. And we need we need to balance between both right for kids, for young kids or pregnant women, you know, they need to be building a lot, right, they need to spend a lot of their time in a building stage. But for adults, we really don't need to spend as much time in a state of building. And so from the time you wake up in the morning, I should say from from your first meal, right the time between your first meal of the day and your last meal of the day, we call it the building stage, right? Where you're turning on hormones like insulin. And insulin is a fat storage hormone. But it's actually a life saving hormone because it takes sugar out of the bloodstream and puts it into the cells. And we know that chronically elevated blood sugar like people that are diabetic insulin resistant diabetics, that when their blood sugar goes up, and they can't clear the bloodstream of the sugar, the sugar actually binds to proteins, and actually create sticky proteins which create free radical stress. So they actually damage a crate rampant amounts of damage to the blood vessels to the kidneys, to the nerves, that's where people get peripheral neuropathy, like your friend did kidney failure or heart failure, right. So, because of that insulin has a really critical job, it needs to clear that bloodstream, get the sugar out, get it into the cells. But while it's doing that, while insulin is elevated in our bloodstream, it's also turning on cell reproduction. So it tells us cells reproduce, right split divide, but also it's it also tells the body store fat, it turns off our ability to burn fat when we start to store fat. Okay, and, and then on top of that, it's also needed to build hormones, which like, for example, to convert thyroid hormone,Tt-4 to T-3, which is actually a very important thing that we need to build sex hormones, we need certain amount of insulin. And so there are you know, positive things to insulin, but also, you know, negative things as well. And so, basically, when we are triggering a lot of insulin, right, throughout the day, we are going to end up storing more fat, we're going to end up our cells are gonna become more resistant to it, we're gonna end up with more problems. So we only want to trigger it for a certain period of time. So the building stage again is the time between the first meal in the last meal, the time between our last meal, and our first meal, the next day, is what we call our cleansing or fasting stage, right. And that's when we heal and rebuild. So when insulin goes down, Now, it turns on our ability to burn fat for fuel. But also our cells still need proteins, they need amino acids to be able to produce enzymes and different things like that. So instead, so if we're not getting it from the diet, what we actually do is we break down damaged proteins within cells. And this is a really cool process called autophagy. And it was a Japanese researcher that won the Nobel Prize for his award winning research on autophagy in 2016. And so autophagy means self eating. So it's this process where basically the cells will produce a certain enzyme called a lysozyme. That will actually break down older damaged organelles. So within our cell, we have organs, right just like we have organs in our body like our heart and our lungs. within the cell. The organs are called mitochondria. You may have heard of that. That's actually what produces all the energy within the cells, the mitochondria. It's like the furnace of the cell. We also have other things and Golgi apparatus, endoplasmic reticulum, things like that. These things are all protein based. And so we need to break these things down when they become damaged, particularly the mitochondria is the most susceptible to damage. It's constantly producing energy. And as a byproduct of that it's rusting, or, in a sense, oxidizing. And so we don't want all these older, damaged, rusted out mitochondria within ourselves. When we have old mitochondria within ourselves, the cells don't function, right. In fact, we call them senescent cells, where they're these really old cells that are dysfunctional, that really aren't serving our body and allowing us to have great energy and great health. If you're feeling really fatigued throughout the course of the day. If you are if you have brain fog on a regular basis, if you have chronic inflammatory conditions, you really have an overload of these senescent cells, we need to get rid of those, we need to either destroy those cells, or we need to rebuild them from the inside. And so the autophagy process takes these these senescent organelles like the mitochondria, and actually eats it and uses the raw materials to produce newer, healthier, stronger mitochondria. So they get recycled. That's right recycles it and these young healthy mitochondria give the cell more stress resilience, they allow the cell to function at a much higher level, they're able to burn fat very effectively for fuel. And, you know, they're the kind of cells that really give us the ability to adapt to stress more effectively. And that's really what we want. So we want a lot of healthy cells with healthy mitochondria.

David Sandstrom 21:39
Man that's got huge implications. In fact, that sounds a little bit like the proverbial fountain of youth.

Dr. Jockers 21:45
I mean, it really is, yeah, absolutely. It's just this is a process that will keep us young and healthy. And that's why I tell people all the time, fasting is really the most ancient, inexpensive and powerful healing strategy known to mankind. There's many things we could talk about that I'm sure you talk about on your podcast, many different nutrition, supplements, strategies, all different types of you know, interventions that you can do to help improve your health. But fasting really is something that's been done since the beginning of mankind, basically, all of our ancestors have done it. It's doesn't cost us anything, obviously, right? We're not we're not buying anything that you know, the research coming out every single day showing just how absolutely powerful it is. I don't know of any more powerful nutritional strategy than practicing some level of intermittent and extended fasting as part of a lifestyle.

David Sandstrom 22:35
Yeah, I totally agree with that, you know, it's my contention that we maximize our health potential when we align our lives more fully with God's design for spirit, mind and body. So if you study anatomy of physiology, as Dr. jockers has, we can look to our design and see that our bodies were designed to take a break from food knowing that we weren't designed to be fed day and night that's contrary to our design. So there's nothing that we can do, in my opinion, that will benefit us our body, our physical vitality, as well as our mental emotional component, and which is the mind and the soul. And the spiritual. All in one fell swoop in as you said, it doesn't cost us a thing. In fact, we save money because we're not consuming as much buying and consuming as much food. It's it's a really, really powerful holistic health strategy. And I I just really love having you on the show to talk about this some more. So let's talk about the hormone cascade the hormones that will get produced during a fast

David Sandstrom 23:41
This episode is brought to you by butcher box. One of the great things about fasting is that it helps us get over our junk food cravings. When we consume zero calories for a period of time, our bodies will naturally be craving quality nutrients, the potato chips and the cookies just won't have the appeal that they used to. When you break your fast, you'll have a much stronger desire to consume quality food. But where do we turn? One of the resources I love is butcher box. BUTCHER box delivers high quality meats and seafood directly to your door with a monthly subscription. They have grass fed and grass finished beef, sustainably raised pork and wild caught seafood. Believe me, you'll taste and feel a difference with these quality products. I generally don't like monthly subscriptions but butcher box I love you choose the size and frequency of your box. And you can easily go online and make changes if you want to. I created a default box and I sometimes make changes to my box before it gets shipped. I usually find myself adding a few items to the minimum size order. Check them out by going to my website, David sandstrom.com forward slash resources. Use my affiliate link by clicking on the butcherbox logo and right now they're offering my listeners to natural nation $30 off your first order. Let's get back to the show.

David Sandstrom 25:09
So let's talk about the hormone cascade the hormones that will get produced during a fast.

Dr. Jockers 25:15
Yeah, for sure. So when we fast we actually elevate growth hormone growth hormone is what's called the quintessential anti aging hormone. You may have heard of like celebrities getting growth hormone injections, things like that. Now, I don't recommend the injections, however, your body naturally produces this and your body has its own checks and balance system. And so when we're fasting growth hormone goes up. And what that actually does actually helps turn on fat burning. It helps preserve lean body tissue. And this is really important to understand a lot of people think when you start to fast, you're going to break down your muscle tissue, okay. And on a daily intermittent fasting schedule, for example, like today, I'll eat two meals yesterday, I only ate one. So every Wednesday, I just eat one meal. And then the other days, I eat two meals. So I actually worked out today, I was like, I was fasted 20, 21 hours, worked out intensely with weights, I felt absolutely amazing, super strong, no reduction in strength, if anything, I actually felt stronger when I went to have like a deep fast like that. And I'm doing strength training. And that's because of this growth hormone elevation. And also on top of that I had elevated levels of certain stress hormones like adrenaline and things like that. And that's, that's key, because our ancestors, when they would go periods of time without food, they need to have heightened awareness, right, they need to have great strength, they need to have energy, so they could go out and kill something or find food somewhere. You know, if they got weaker when they fasted, then they would die, right? So when they when they are actually in a period where food wasn't around, our natural instincts get stronger. I mean, you think about Thanksgiving, it's like wheat, this big meal, right? We take in all this energy yet, we don't feel energized, we want to take a nap, you know. And so whereas when we fast, you actually get more energy, like I feel great exercising in that fasted state. Yeah. And then as long as you're consuming enough calories, right, you got to listen to your body, you're consuming, you know, when I eat meals, I eat a lot of food, I eat till I'm fully satiated, then you're not going to lose muscle mass, you could even do like a three day or even a five day fast. And as long as you continue to weight train, right now if you're very, very lean. Like for me, I have more trouble with this. But for somebody that actually has a lot of fat mass, you can actually do a three or five day fast, continue to exercise, right, as long as you stay hydrated, you might eat electrolytes, like like some salts and things like that, and you'll actually not lose any muscle. Okay, so it's one of these things where you do lose some muscle, but your lean body mass can stay exactly the same, if not actually adding to it. The muscle that you lose are the damaged senescent muscle cells, that your body actually recycles and turns into newer, healthier, stronger muscle cells. So as long as you train

David Sandstrom 28:12
That has super huge implications to a guy by the age of 58 years old. And when you go to the gym, you don't see the results you're used to when you're 25. So if you can practice regular, intermittent fasting, the way Dr. Jarvis is laying out right here, you can get rid of those old cells that don't respond to training very well and replace them with new healthier cells. When you get to the gym, you're going to see some more productivity. Again, turning back the tide, the turning back the clock on on your your realistic age.

Dr. Jockers 28:40
Absolutely. And this is why I'm a huge fan of fasted exercise, I think fasted exercise really gives you the best benefits. And it it gives you a an even deeper level of autophagy. That cell recycling because now when you're training like this, you have more oxidative stress and inflammation. You know, most people don't realize this, but exercise is extremely inflammatory. If you do a really hard workout and you were to test your blood levels of C reactive protein, it would look like you had a heart attack, okay, and so it's very, very inflammatory, but it's how our body adapts and responds to it. We adapt, we get stronger, and we actually get better at dealing with inflammation and oxidative stress. Well, we can actually leverage some of that inflammation, oxidative stress to trigger more autophagy. And to get rid of a lot of these muscle cells when we work out in a fasted state super cool. and we replenish obviously, by consuming a really good meal getting the the amino acids that we need, the calories that we need to rebuild those muscles.

David Sandstrom 29:37
So I know this because I read your book, but you talk about how we actually make energy with water and electrolytes. And we do our rebuilding when we eat a meal. Correct. Correct.

Dr. Jockers 29:47
Yeah, exactly. I mean, we're hydroelectric beings. Yeah. So our nervous system runs off of water and electrolytes. It's not running off of fat or carbohydrates, right. So we need some of that to produce energy, of course, but we can produce rampid amounts of energy with just water and electrolytes, really the calories have to do with rebuilding, like you said, Really rebuilding new cells. That's really where those calories come in why they're so important. So but for energy, yeah, you're actually gonna have a lot more energy in a fasted state than you are in a well fed state.

David Sandstrom 30:18
Yeah, that's excellent. That's really good stuff, you know, there's something, that's pretty popular these days, it's, it's very expensive, and that is stem cell replacement. They can they can harvest some stem cells, and inject them in to where you have some some maybe some damaged cartilage in your knee or something like that very expensive procedure. But fasting will help you produce natural stem cells. So talk to the listeners about what a stem cell is, and how we can benefit it that those numbers by fasting.

Dr. Jockers 30:47
Yes, stem cells are these very young embryonic cells and oftentimes are undifferentiated meaning that, you know, whatever tissue that they're in, they will start to differentiate into the functions of those cells, like a kidney cell, stem cells, and the kidneys will start to differentiate into kidney cells, for example. Now, the cool thing about stem cells is they have incredible stress resilience, because they're very, very young, right? You think about like, you know, an 18 year old compared to a 58 year old, right? Yeah, different level of resilience there. And so we're getting, you know, you know, we're getting these really strong young stress resilient cells, we want a continual supply of those, and our body naturally built produces those, but we need to be in a state where we have low levels of insulin in order for that to happen. And so intermittent or extended fasting is really the best strategy for that. There's actually a way of doing it, where, in a sense, again, it's this feast, famine, cycling, where we fast, and we start to really break down all these damaged cells, we start getting rid of bad cells recycling, you know, bad mitochondria and turning them into new new cells, we actually create an environment where the body really wants to start to get these stem cells elevated, right, because we're reducing, we're getting rid of a lot of bad cells. And then we go ahead and we eat a really good meal, right. And now we start to feed those stem cells, they become really strong, and they really take a take up residence in the different organ systems of the body. And you know, one area that I know you and I both talk a lot about is the gut, right and how gut health is, in fact, you know, our gut lining is only one cell wall that's basically held in so each cell is held in by a tight junction to the cell next to it. So you think about it, like a cheesecloth, right? And it has these little holes, and those holes allow nutrients to seep in and across, right. However, when we're constantly eating, like most people are in our society, we're creating a lot of physical and mechanical stress on that cheesecloth. And on top of that, when we eat, you know, inflammatory foods, or if we have some level of altered digestion, let's say we eat on the go, or we're a little bit stressed when we eat, we don't produce enough stomach acid, enough enzymes. And now food particles are not digested as well, they create more inflammation, which is more tearing of that cheesecloth. And now we end up with a state called leaky gut. Now, because that's cuz our intestines are only one cell, the body works to heal the intestinal membrane faster than just about any other cell in the body. So every three to five days, it's replaced those cells. That's amazing and, and not amazing. And fasting has actually been shown. This is an animal study. They haven't done this on humans yet. But fasting has been shown in a rat study, to have a dramatic increase in stem cells in the intestinal in the intestine. So the inteiro sites in the intestines, with 24 hour fast, we get a huge rise in these stem cells, at least in the rats, they did so. And we hypothesize to say that, something like that will do do something very, very similar in a human as well. So fasting, taking the stress off the gut, and then allowing those cells to really heal and rebuild can be amazing for the gut and the other. The other great thing about the digestive system is that fasting has actually been shown to improve the diversity of the microbiome. We have these kinds of bacteria that live in the mucosal membrane like akkermansia mucophelia, which is considered a keystone bacteria that microbiome researchers have found this bacteria is elevated when it's elevated in our microbiome. Those individuals have much lower rates of metabolic disease, Crohn's disease, pretty much every degenerative condition or autoimmune condition. And fasting is one of the best things for helping increase the amounts of this good bacteria akkermansia and that actually helps to akkermansia eats the mucus stimulates goblet cells produce more mucus to create a thicker, healthier mucosal membrane in our intestines and the mucosal membranes, what actually protects the cells, the intestinal cells from damage, and that's actually where the immune component of the intestines lives the Secretory IgA, right?

David Sandstrom 35:03
So, so powerful. How important is two more things I really want to get to before we wrap up in what is Yeah, what that mucosal membrane. We've all seen a dog drink dirty water out of a puddle and not get sick. Why can they do that? Because they have a super strong mucosal barrier, right? So the mucosal barrier in our gut is really super important in intermittent fasting is a way to strengthen that that alone is huge. That's that's really huge, has massive implications for our health and vitality. So you're a follower of Jesus Christ. And I wanted to make sure we had we say some time for this is the spiritual component to fasting. For me, when I'm on one of those three day fasts, it just simply clears up the static between me and God, if I want to hear from God, if I need some guidance in a decision making process, I'll fast and I'll get answers. And it's been it's been a just a such a blessing for me to be able to do that. So can you talk to me a little bit about the spiritual component i this is for me, if we get the spiritual, right, the rest of our lives tend to fall into place. So yeah, I'd like to spend a little time talking about how really, really powerful fasting is for our spiritual side.

Dr. Jockers 36:13
Yeah, absolutely. Well, of course, Jesus talked about prayer and fasting in the Bible. And, you know, when we fast, just like you said, I think it was a great analogy. It's like the static, it's like, if you're trying to tune into a radio station, but you have all this feedback. digestion is really energy intensive. And when we're eating food, the act of eating food actually, itself activates more inflammation in the body. And inflammation is kind of like that scatter feedback in, you know, when you're trying to tune the radio. And so when we can calm that down, it really allows us to be more perceptive and aware of our body of our environment, and of the messages of the Holy Spirit's trying to give us and so, you know, there's just countless testimonies of people that, you know, I've had incredible breakthroughs through fasting and we're denying ourselves, you know, and really, you know, that's a big components are flesh. You know, as, as human beings, we struggle with the flesh, and by denying the flesh, we are, you know, tuning in to the spiritual realm, right.

David Sandstrom 37:17
And we're demonstrating practicing humility. Yeah, right, we're acknowledging that we're not we're not the ones in control here. You know, it's right. You say this in your book, and I found the same thing. We tell somebody you're fasting, they look at you like you got three heads, you know, what, you're what you're What? That's harmful? Well, actually, you know, if you're a Christian, this should be considered basic Christianity. Jesus considered a basic Christianity. He didn't say if you fast, he said, when you fast, correct, you know, this, this was basic Christianity, we see it all through the Bible, Old Testament, New Testament, this is something that was practiced for for spiritual breakthroughs, for for spiritual warfare, for victories over over obstacles, and, and connection with God and guidance. And, and it's a powerful practice in that that concept has not gone away, just because living in 21st century, Gods the same yesterday, today forever. So if you want to connect with God, this is a very important and powerful practice. And the side benefit is that we have a long list of physical benefits, right? Yeah, youth building, muscle building, God health. I mean, the list goes on and on. It's, I can't say enough about this practice. I'm a huge fan. And I appreciate you sharing your time with us today and your expertise.

Dr. Jockers 38:29
Well, thanks so much, David, absolutely, you know, it's definitely something that I would highly recommend everybody just start doing it, you know, basically, and there's different ways that you can start doing it. You know, I tell people in the book to start with just like a 12 hour simple fast between your last meal and your first meal. And that's really just kind of creating mental awareness, more or less, it's actually very easy to do. So if you finish dinner at 7pm you don't need anything with calories till 7am The next day, very simple, just kind of a mental awareness practice. And then you start to work your way up, and I have strategies in the book. And really, ultimately, my goal is that, you know, we can get everybody doing something like a 20 to 24 hour fast, one day, a week, you know, I mean, we can really end metabolic disease, you know, just improve the, you know, just overall health of our society by, you know, a huge amount. And then on top of that, you know, just from a spiritual perspective, you know, you'll be tapping into one of the most revered practices for spiritual breakthrough. And just like you said, Your irritability goes down, your self control goes up, like her ability to manifest the fruits of the Spirit, even though like in the beginning, fasting can be uncomfortable and some people get irritable and things like that. Your ability to be calm, under stress, right to, you know, just not be as reactive. And also your ability to break through from addictions that you may be dealing with, you know, stressors, stuff like that just really, really goes up and you're able to tune into the Holy Spirit at A whole new level. So yeah, I think such a powerful practice.

David Sandstrom 40:03
Well, you know, I want to mention one thing before we close. And that is, you don't want to jump into the five day fast, you don't want to start off that way you want to do it a step at a time, right? If you're any improvement to your health, any change to your lifestyle that you're going to make, you should make those mini goals, those miniature goals. So small, so short, that victory is guaranteed, right. So as Dr. Darker just just shared, start off with a 12 hour you're spending most of that time sleeping, that is not difficult to do, most people can do that without a problem. And then go to 13, then, you know, go to 14, work your way up to 18. And you've got a feeding window of about six hours a day, you'll be doing some very some powerful work physiologically, if you can get to that point. But don't expect to do it overnight. just work your way into it. And you will actually enjoy the process you'll enjoy the journey as opposed to experiencing the pain for I had a friend who started off with an eight day water fast, like fearful that's like going from you know, sitting on the couch to running a marathon, right? You don't do that? Yeah, you're gonna be really hurting if you did that. So yeah. So anyway, I encourage anybody listening pick up the book, it's called the fasting transformation. And I'm an author to my book is the Christians guide to holistic health. But I can appreciate from one Arthur to another, the conciseness the brevity, but all the information is there that you have an amazing amount of information and very few pages and and the conciseness. I know it takes work to get that done that way. I appreciate the work you did. And if you want to learn how to ease into a fast and more about the benefits of fasting and the myths and all that he goes into it all in this book. So I highly, highly encourage anybody listening, pick up a book, the fasting transformation. So what's the easiest way for somebody to get a book and get a hold of you? For sure? Well, you can find it on Amazon, the fasting transformation. And you can find me at DrJockers.com and of course, I'm on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, all the different social media channels. Alright, very good. And I want to mention, Dr. jockers always has a free gift that he gives away every month. So you can go What's the website? What's the URL for that one? Dr. Jekyll, you can go to DrJockers.com and then we also have I think, DrJockersgift.com. Yeah.

David Sandstrom 42:15
I just listened to your one of your podcasts. DrJockersgift. Yeah. And you'll have that monthly gift on there. So anyway, if you go to his website, you'll find it. Well, thank you so much. God bless you, Dr. jockers. Appreciate your expertise and your time.

Dr. Jockers 42:30
Thank you so much. It's an honor and privilege to be on with you. And I'll see you soon. All right. All right, be blessed.

David Sandstrom 42:36
Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Dr. David jockers. He is a wealth of information, he dropped a lot of value bombs. And this was a very important episode, I believe, because fasting is one of the few things that we can do. As far as our natural health lifestyle goes that will impact us physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually all at the same time. And the best part is, it's free. It doesn't cost us a nickel. So it's a huge concept. And I encourage you to listen to this episode a second time and if you enjoyed it, tell your friends about it, you can click on social share button on the website at DavidSandstrom.com. This is episode number 48. For more go to DavidSandstrom.com. in the show notes for each episode, you'll find links to all the resources that were mentioned, as well as a full transcript with timestamps that you can download for free. In addition, I always include a content upgrade with each show, which is a free download that is designed to help you go deeper with that subject. Once again, thank you for listening, and I'll talk with you next week. Be blessed


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About the author 

David Sandstrom

I am a follower of Jesus Christ, a Naturopathic Doctor, and a Biblical Health Coach. I am also an Airline Captain for a major airline based out of Atlanta, Ga. I've been helping people maximize their health potential by nurturing their body, mind, and spirit since 2005.

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